Struggling with getting sharp edges on Wicked Edge

T

ToddM

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Oct 2, 1998
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I've had a wicked edge gen 3 pro for a few years now, and to be honest I've rarely used it, tried it on several knives when I first got it, but struggled to get really sharp edges. Recently I've been re-motivated to figure it out. I'm really not that into making mirror edges I just want them really sharp.

I've read a lot of the how to posts, and watched videos and I've seen improvement, but I'm still not getting there. I'm wondering if I'm not going far enough in grit, not doing enough strokes when changing grits, or if I need to use the tapes/strops to get a good edge. It's also possible that the stones are still breaking in, but I'd say overall I've now done 30-40 knives with it.

This is my general workflow on a new knife where I want to set a bevel.

I'll get it clamped up, and use an angle cube to set usually an 18 degree bevel and set that edge with usually 100/200 grit. I'll do as many strokes "scrubbing" focusing on removing sharpie, and then I'll do full length strokes 5-10 per side working till 5 strokes will set a burr the whole edge. Then I'll move down to 3, 2,1 and do a few alternating single strokes.

When I switch to the next stone I start out "scrubbing" till it seems like I've got an even scratch pattern, and feel the stone get smoother, and then I'll go back to the 5-10 per side, working down to single alternating stokes and checking the burr, I generally stop checking for a burr at 400, mostly because I usually can never feel them past that.

Usually once I switch to 600 I just stay with alternating strokes trying to feel the stones glide smoother and get even scratch pattern. If I had to guess I'd say 30-50 strokes, and I do the same progressing to 800, 1000, and sometimes 1500 and I've tried the 2200. I know I read on some posts a lot of people are stopping at 400-800 grit and stropping and maybe I need to try that but my 400-800 grit edges seem super toothy.

Even at 1500, the edge is not shaving sharp, and it still seems toothy certainly better than the more course grits but way more toothy than I get say using a lansky or edge pro at similar grits. I can take the knife for example and go to a spyderco edgemaker fine ceramic and in 10-20 strokes it will be shaving sharp the entire way (granted that's a slight double bevel at 20deg).

I've played around with the ceramic 1200/1600 but it didn't seem to really do much. I haven't played with the lapping tapes or strops. I know WE has a grit recommendation of 100-200-400-600-800-1000 + stropping at 5/3.5 for a sharp working edge so maybe I just need to do the stropping part.

I have a few hypothesis, but figured perhaps those with more experience can see mistakes I'm making.

1) I'm not making enough strokes when switching stones
2) The stones are still not broken in and acting much more course than they will after more knives
3) I need to start using the strops or lapping film (any pros/cons to which you have found better?)
4) Something else I haven't thought of
 
I'd go with just the burr, raising on the full length on both sides of the edge. Then use very short (quarter inch), very light edge-leading strokes at the sharpening angle to remove the burr. Go to the next stone and repeat. The burr can be felt way past grits finer than 600.
 
I've not had any problems with my Wicked Edge sharpeners. I check for burrs on both sides after every grit. I use a piece of folded creased paper towel to feel for the burrs. I feel for the burrs with the creased part of the paper towel.
I also don't use edge leading strokes except for the scrubbing strokes to reach burrs on each side and/or to remove the previous stone marks. After the scrubbing strokes, I only use edge-trailing alternate strokes.
The prevailing consensus is when you think you've done enough alternating strokes per side, do 20 more per side.
I also never try to remove the (final)burr with the blade clamped on the sharpener itself. For a toothy working blade, I will make a few cuts in cardboard or my 2" HD Poly or Nylon webbing straps. For a polished edge I freehand with a strop/diamond emulsion, gently.
That works great for me. Other people may have success sharpening a different way.
 
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It sounds like you're doing the right things initially and raising a burr well but possibly after that applying too much pressure as you progress up the stones? Have you tried lightening up your pressure to the bare minimum and only letting the stones do the work, especially as you move up in the grits? This is often a reason why guys are not getting good edges off of their finer grit stones - they apply too much sharpening force and deflect the edge away from the stone, thereby missing the very apex of the edge and only polishing the part behind the edge.

Also, it should really only take 10 or so strokes with the finer stones to remove the previous grit scratch pattern - they are diamond plated and remove metal fast.

Lastly, if you strop with pasted leather strops at the end of your sharpening - keep it at a minimum strokes (only 5-10 or so) and almost zero pressure.
 
Since you have the angle control to do so, just add 1 degree at each grit change after the coarsest one. Try 100 grit at 14 degrees per side, then 200/15, 400/16, and 600/17. Any combination can work, though I wouldn’t go beyond 20 degrees per side at the highest. If you already have 18 set maybe start at 17 and go to 20.

After the coarsest stone, I wouldn’t go beyond 5 or 6 passes per side at each grit with the lightest pressure you can manage. You’ll end up with a faceted mess if you do too many.
 
Forget about feeling for a burr. Get yourself a cheap USB or WiFi microscope so that you can actually see what is going on with the edge. The coarsest stone always takes the most strokes if reprofiling to a new angle.

Once you can see what is going on, shaving sharp is easy. Be sure to check the edge at 4 or 5 spots along both sides to get a good idea what is going on.

Getting a microscope was like turning on a lightbulb for me.
 
That's actually a great idea on the USB microscope, I had no idea they were that inexpensive.
 
I finish with leading edge strokes and don't have to strop to shave. Not sure how sharp you want to go? My working edge will shave and is a little toothy without stropping. If I want to whittle a hair I need to go pretty fine n strop or super fine n don't strop. It could be a pressure issue, or differences between stone thickness and not compensating for it? No experience with the stones you're using or if that's a possibility. Even a jewelers loop n a flashlight lets me see the scratch pattern n edge enough to know how I'm doing. I still would use that more often, but the usb jobbies are pretty appealing.
 
000Robert said:
Hi Todd. Have you started getting some sharp edges?
Click to expand...
Have to still watch the two videos above, I have been getting better results, mostly I think because I assumed (my fault totally) that I didn't need to re-check or adjust angles between stones. So what I've been doing now usually is setting the bevel with 100/200 (a lot of times just 200), checking the ending angle, and setting that same angle with 400, and then adding ~2 tenths of a degree (steeper) for 600, 800, 1000, 1500 and also using a qtip/paper towel and using a hand lens for checking the edge/burr (those geology degree field tools finally come in handy!) . I'm sure that doesn't get crazy mirror edges, but it definitely has improved the consistency of sharpness I'm getting, and also the overall sharpness by the time I finish. I've also started to do just leading edge strokes and much less pressure once I get to say 600+ grit, and also a tip on using a bit more thumb side pressure when getting to the tip to keep from rounding it or taking too much at the tip has improved how sharp/clean my tip is staying. So definitely improvement, but certainly more to go.

I'll be honest I'm probably too lazy to get crazy sharp edges, I normally set like a 18 deg edge and then maintain on the sharpmaker at 20 with fine or medium stones depending on use. At least for my purposes while I'm sure it's not the peak of sharpness it makes a very easy to maintain edge that's more than sharp enough.
 
ToddM said:
Have to still watch the two videos above, I have been getting better results, mostly I think because I assumed (my fault totally) that I didn't need to re-check or adjust angles between stones. So what I've been doing now usually is setting the bevel with 100/200 (a lot of times just 200), checking the ending angle, and setting that same angle with 400, and then adding ~2 tenths of a degree (steeper) for 600, 800, 1000, 1500 and also using a qtip/paper towel and using a hand lens for checking the edge/burr (those geology degree field tools finally come in handy!) . I'm sure that doesn't get crazy mirror edges, but it definitely has improved the consistency of sharpness I'm getting, and also the overall sharpness by the time I finish. I've also started to do just leading edge strokes and much less pressure once I get to say 600+ grit, and also a tip on using a bit more thumb side pressure when getting to the tip to keep from rounding it or taking too much at the tip has improved how sharp/clean my tip is staying. So definitely improvement, but certainly more to go.

I'll be honest I'm probably too lazy to get crazy sharp edges, I normally set like a 18 deg edge and then maintain on the sharpmaker at 20 with fine or medium stones depending on use. At least for my purposes while I'm sure it's not the peak of sharpness it makes a very easy to maintain edge that's more than sharp enough.
Click to expand...

I normally sharpen blades to just 800 or 1000 grit. I like toothy edges on most knives. I also check the angles with my digital angle cube after every stone change. Edge leading strokes don't work well for me for some reason.

It would be good to only use light pressure all the way to the tip. You also want to stop the stones when the blade tip is halfway into the stones. Taking the stones further than halfway will cause you to round the tips.

But keep practicing, you'll get there.
 
ToddM said:
At least for my purposes while I'm sure it's not the peak of sharpness it makes a very easy to maintain edge that's more than sharp enough.
Click to expand...
There is an age old question, " How Sharp Do I Need My Knife To Be ". Simple answer, as sharp as you need it to do the job at hand. Sounds like you have found your sweet spot. It's more than sharp enough for what you need, don't over think it. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
 
If your stones are still very coarse, if you are swiping up and down you may be chipping some of the steel away along the edge. So watch out for that.
When using the sharpie; you may want to test the angle using the 1000 grit stone so it gets rid of the sharpie but doesn't affect the edge too much.
Also, sometimes the screw holding the guide rod comes loose and you lose the proper angle until you notice it.
You don't need to go fast when sharpening.
Getting some kind of magnification device is crucial. I use a small loop built into a magnifying glass so I can get close to the edge and see exactly where I'm sharpening.
The Wicked Edge is not a perfect device and we get better results that look more like a factory edge on the AMK system but that's $1k+ and needs to be plugged in and takes up more space; but the Wicked Edge is great otherwise.
 
gte217e said:
If your stones are still very coarse, if you are swiping up and down you may be chipping some of the steel away along the edge. So watch out for that.
When using the sharpie; you may want to test the angle using the 1000 grit stone so it gets rid of the sharpie but doesn't affect the edge too much.
Also, sometimes the screw holding the guide rod comes loose and you lose the proper angle until you notice it.
You don't need to go fast when sharpening.
Getting some kind of magnification device is crucial. I use a small loop built into a magnifying glass so I can get close to the edge and see exactly where I'm sharpening.
The Wicked Edge is not a perfect device and we get better results that look more like a factory edge on the AMK system but that's $1k+ and needs to be plugged in and takes up more space; but the Wicked Edge is great otherwise.
Click to expand...

Wicked Edge is about as perfect a sharpener as there is that I could find. Mine was also $1k+. To keep the screws to stay tight you just need to dress up the faces of the contact areas with some sandpaper and stones. I also polish them. I do that automatically when I receive things and forget to mention it. It's just something that I do without thinking about it much. That's probably why I never had the problems that many people have.
 
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