stupid question about steel hardness/type

U

Uhurungus

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Jan 8, 2015
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ok i bought some 1095 from Jantz. great, first time ever trying to make a knife. made 5 or 6 blanks with my 18" piece. time to buy some more and keep practicing bevels.

so i find that shipping costs are killer and find a local place that advertises 1095 Carbon/Spring steel. i buy 12'. i get it home and notice right off the bat that this is much harder to cut. don't think much of it, i figure my hacksaw blade is dull. so i put on a brand new hacksaw blade and it dulls the teeth right out of the gate. bent them right over. i tried drilling it, and it's hard to tell whether or not i can tell a difference under a bit. i put a chunk on my grinder and it throws a massive amount more sparks than the last piece.

my question is whether or not i got steel that wasn't intended for knifemaking? maybe it is hardened? i don't know the proper terminology to ask the right question i guess. here is a link to the steel i bought. it lists composition and properties.

http://www.pmtsco.com/1080-95-carbon-spring.php

thoughts?
 
It's probably not hardened, but maybe hot rolled. This can leave a layer of scale on the surface of the steel that is super hard. If it does have scale on it then soak in vinegar overnight to remove it.

That's my best guess.
 
The "Blue" coiled stuff is already HT'd to Rc48 or so (spring temper).....I'd call them
and ask that...
 
i believe i remember hearing something about it being hot rolled. how deep is the scale? is there a visual cue? heh gonna have to figure out how to soak 4' lengths, that should be interesting. i suppose i can cut it with a hand grinder and put it in something.

if that's the case and it's pre tempered to rc48, what are my realistic options? work it that hard or put it aside and bite the bullet and buy some different stock?
 
if that's the case and it's pre tempered to rc48, what are my realistic options? work it that hard or put it aside and bite the bullet and buy some different stock?
 
Uhurungus said:
if that's the case and it's pre tempered to rc48, what are my realistic options? work it that hard or put it aside and bite the bullet and buy some different stock?
Click to expand...

If you discover that its spring tempered you can do a sub critical anneal. Hold it at 1200 degrees for an hour then it should be workable.

Definitely call the company you bought it.from and ask them about the steel.
 
You could cut it with an angle grinder instead of a hacksaw.
 
I'd just use an angle grinder and cut through it. If there is any ht to 48 that's not high enough for a knife anyways so don't worry about overheating. You're going to have to re-ht and working with rc48 isn't all that bad consider people grind at 60-65 rc after ht
 
If you have the capability of hardening the finished blade, you have the ability to learn to give it a psuedo sub-critical anneal and it will work like butter.
 
It would be a little easier to recommend options if we knew what kind of equipment you have at your disposal. Do you have a forge or heat treat oven? Are you going to forge it or use stock removal? What kind of sanders/grinders do you have?
 
ahh yeah, sorry. some background:

i'm brand new, not completed a single blade. i've ground bevels on 4 or 5 blanks only. i just got the idea i wanted to try knife making over christmas. so i bought some stuff and started reading these boards and went crazy with the 20 year old library books.

i started with a bunch of files and quickly ran out and bought a craftsman 2 x 42. i have a few other things, drill press, hand grinder, 6" wheel grinder but no way to heat treat. i'll be sending out for that until i build a small backyard forge. i've also been using 1095 steel which is the reason i've not started the forge build.

i'll be doing the budget route for a while so sub critical annealing is most likely out of the question for me personally for a while. this is the first i've ever heard of that though so for that i'm grateful to learn yet another new thing.

i'll call the place later today and ask what's up then update.
 
Cut a piece off and throw it in the wood stove for 15-20 minutes and see how it cuts/drills.

You have harden spring steel.
 
Uhurungus said:
ahh yeah, sorry. some background:

i'm brand new, not completed a single blade. i've ground bevels on 4 or 5 blanks only. i just got the idea i wanted to try knife making over christmas. so i bought some stuff and started reading these boards and went crazy with the 20 year old library books.

i started with a bunch of files and quickly ran out and bought a craftsman 2 x 42. i have a few other things, drill press, hand grinder, 6" wheel grinder but no way to heat treat. i'll be sending out for that until i build a small backyard forge. i've also been using 1095 steel which is the reason i've not started the forge build.

i'll be doing the budget route for a while so sub critical annealing is most likely out of the question for me personally for a while. this is the first i've ever heard of that though so for that i'm grateful to learn yet another new thing.

i'll call the place later today and ask what's up then update.
Click to expand...

Unless you plan to use the forge for the experience and to actually want to do it, it will always be easier and sometimes cheaper to send it out. I believe its usually 7-10$ and its done correct and it opens up the variety of steel you can work with. Not meant to discourage
 
i absolutely want to learn the forge, how to temper and harden and anneal etc. that's part of the excitement and draw for me when i thought about learning this craft.

i did get off the phone with the company today. he was very clear that what i bought was NOT pre-hardened. It is NOT spring steel. it IS however, HOTROLLED - AS ROLLED. maybe that means that they didn't harden it, but possibly the manufacturer did? should i ask to get in touch with the manufacturer? my gut tells me to just let it be and chalk it up as a $50 lesson. this hobby is getting expensive and i've yet to actually do anything lol.

so there it is. i'll try soaking a bit in vinegar and see what happens.

so if i take the advice of one of the above posters and try a sub-critical anneal by throwing some in the fireplace for an hour or 2 what would that do to unhardened steel? just turn it to butter?

this is really sketching me out. i'd hate burn up all my sandpaper (that i spent more money than i originally wanted to) on a stupid mistake. but i'd hate to let 10' of steel waste away and spend another $100 having more shipped out to me from somewhere else when i don't need to.

hmm...
 
If you have to soak, try a section of PVC sealed at one end and filled with vinegar.

Next time you are in the market for 1095 check out Aldos. I am just a nob myself, but found his shipping rates very reasonable.
 
i did get off the phone with the company today. he was very clear that what i bought was NOT pre-hardened. It is NOT spring steel. it IS however, HOTROLLED - AS ROLLED. maybe that means that they didn't harden it, but possibly the manufacturer did? should i ask to get in touch with the manufacturer? my gut tells me to just let it be and chalk it up as a $50 lesson. this hobby is getting expensive and i've yet to actually do anything lol.

so there it is. i'll try soaking a bit in vinegar and see what happens.

so if i take the advice of one of the above posters and try a sub-critical anneal by throwing some in the fireplace for an hour or 2 what would that do to unhardened steel? just turn it to butter?
Click to expand...

A picture of the steel in question would had helped in the beginning. The link you posted showed rolls of hardened spring steel.

No, don't soak it for an hour or two in the fire place, but 15-20 minutes.
 
No reason to waste money OR steel. I'm free for a good chunk of the day today if you'd like to bring it up to the 'Couv and let me have a look.. We can fire up the forge if need be.
-Mark
 
It may have been mentioned already, but it's not necessarily just the "scale" from the hot rolling process that will give you trouble, it's the fact that it hasn't been annealed.

You want to get some CRA (cold rolled annealed) if you're looking for a steel that's ready to go right out of the box.

That said, you can still anneal and de-scale, it's just going to be a little more time and effort. Not a bad thing to know how to do at any rate.
 
don - i misspoke in the last post. i did in fact say 1 or 2 hours but didn't mean it. if in fact the steel is unhardened, what would 15-20 minutes in the fireplace do? i assume that is the correct treatment only if it was hardened. would it ruin it?

polish avenger - this is most generous! i'd be extremely happy to come up to your forge if we can work out a time. i'll send you a PM and maybe i can bring some of my bevels for you to look over and school me while the forge does it's thing.

jtwodogs - i'll try the vinegar in pvc thing tonight too.

i'm thankful that you guys even choose to respond to my questions. i can imagine how many pleas for help from noobies you have dealt with in the past. silly questions, silly situations. but it's important to me. and i've done some homework, obviously not enough, but enough so i'm not wanting to be handheld through every phase of this.
 
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Uhurungus said:
don - i misspoke in the last post. i did in fact say 1 or 2 hours but didn't mean it. if in fact the steel is unhardened, what would 15-20 minutes in the fireplace do? i assume that is the correct treatment only if it was hardened. would it ruin it?
Click to expand...

You can put the steel in a wood fire long enough to bring it up to a red or bright red color, not orange. Bring it out and let air cool. This wont hurt the steel and is essentially a normalizing heat. Doesn't mater if it's heat treated or not.

But the best bet is to take polish avenger up on his offer and learn a little while there.
 
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