Style vs. Steel

E

Eight Trigrams

Joined
Sep 10, 2006
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226
I would add a poll on this question, but I can't seem to figure out how. Oh well.

Here's the question: Have you ever passed on a knife with a really appealing design solely because the steel used in its construction was unimpressive or crappy?

Personally, I'm looking at the new TOPS Marine Heat. The lines of the knife are soooo hot to me, kinda like an improved Strider BT. I just think there are better steels to make a hard-use knife out of nowadays than 1095. I'm probably gonna pull the trigger anyways, but I was wondering what you guys think.

http://www.topsknives.com/product_info.php?products_id=224&osCsid=a281a440858088104be9e07f87752638
 
1095 is a good steel. I mostly pass on low end stainless.

I would pass on that TOPS because of the design (short little grind.)
 
I think 1095 is a very good hard use steel as well....I think its used quite a bit because of its simplicity, quality and track record, it would be used even more IMO if it had better resistance to rust.
 
Like RF said, 1095 is not a bad steel at all. If you like the design, I'd say "go ahead and buy it". The price sounds reasonable for what you are getting. You may need to reprofile the edge, though- to get it into working order. From the little pic in your link, the edge looks pretty beefy.
 
i like the looks on some of the high end Cold steel folders, but I've passed on them for having lackluster steel (And cost too).

they are beautiful, but... just not worth it.
 
I'm not real fond of AUS-6, more personal preference than anything. Because of that I have yet to get a SOG Pentagon. I really love the design, but wish it at least came in AUS-8. I'll still probably end up getting it one day.
 
All the time. Steel over style any day...although if you look hard enough, you can almost always find a great compromise between the two.
 
No, but I have a CRKT Desert Cruiser that has an AUS8A blade that won't cut worth a damn. And it's not because it's AUS8A. I've got a knife with a 440A blade on me now and it's a wonderful knife. Cuts everything and sharpens beautifully by just staring at it for 30 seconds. At first I thought it was the crappy chisel grind blade, but I have other CRKTs that are chisel grinds and though I woudn't buy them again, they do cut much better. So now I'm thinking it's the steel. Anyway, I've dedicated it to just experimentation and have been trying various sharpening techniques, none of which work worth a damn. Sometimes I think I should throw away the blade and try sharpening the handle. I still like the M21-04, but CRKTs have just sort of lost their charm for me.

There are knives that have good steel blades that I wish had GREAT steel blades, but that's another thread.
 
RF said pretty much everything. 1095 is a good steel and I pass on low end stainless. I have enough butter knives and my 5 bucks can buy me a gallon of gas which I'll probably get more use and enjoyment out of.
 
Hell yeah! Price also plays a role.

I would not buy a knife with 440 j or surgical stainless also I am not very keen on 440a -or c.

For example; SOG has a few cool folders but their steel is AUS8 which is a good steel but for $80. I could buy a spyderco with VG-10. So yes, steel is a factor.
 
Absolutely. I very rarely will buy anything with steel of quality lower than VG10 or S30V. What's the use of buying a knife to cut with that has anything less than an excellent steel? Joe
 
Eight Trigrams said:
I...
Here's the question: Have you ever passed on a knife with a really appealing design solely because the steel used in its construction was unimpressive or crappy?
...
Click to expand...

Yes, I have.

By the same token, I have bought knives whose design I did not care for just so I could try the steel that the blade was made from. (OK, everyone say, "EWWWW!") What can I say? I'm a materials engineer and materials mean a lot to me.

When I look for a user for EDC, however, I want both steel and design that will perform my needs. To me that means 1% or better Carbon stainless steel and usually a modified drop point.
 
Eight Trigrams said:
Here's the question: Have you ever passed on a knife with a really appealing design solely because the steel used in its construction was unimpressive or crappy?
Click to expand...

Yup! I strongly distinguish the steels that make the cut and those that don't. I am not someone to pass on any of a number of steels that I have had good experiences with. I don't need the latest greatest steel (even though it always makes me curious). For example, I am really rather indifferent whether I get ATS34 or S30V, though I expect the former to be a bit cheaper all else considered equal. But I will not own a knife with a steel that doesn't make the cut. Personally, I will for example not own another knife with a low end stainless steel, no matter how the rest looks like. It is just not worth it to me.

On the HC and toolsteels it is much more difficult to go wrong. I have no problem with 1095.
 
I very rarely will buy anything with steel of quality lower than VG10 or S30V. What's the use of buying a knife to cut with that has anything less than an excellent steel?
Click to expand...
This, I think, is a radical view. There are many fine grades of stainless leading up to these steels, and though S30V (being arguably the best steel) has many fine attributes, there are a number of applications for which it would fall short. Being expensive, there are certain cutting chores that might be less than suitable--chores that might damage the blade.

The expense of high end steels also generally means you're not going to be getting a lot of it. Sometimes blades need to be large, or tough, or highly resistant to salt and corrosion. Sometimes they simply need to be inexpensive because of where they're kept.

Now the question of the thread I think has to do with passing on a knife because the quality of the steel wasn't up to snuff. That's a bit different. Lots of companies, like Gerber and CRKT, are using lower quality steels that have only one benefit: it saves the company big $$$.

On the other hand, some knives like COLD STEEL's Voyager, need to be large and beefy. How much would a piece of steel that size cost made of S30V?
 
This has likely been menitone somewhere in this thread, but how a blade is heat treated is at least as important as the type of steel used.
 
Eight Trigrams said:
Here's the question: Have you ever passed on a knife with a really appealing design solely because the steel used in its construction was unimpressive or crappy?
Click to expand...

Not crappy, but get sick of all the stainless and regreted buying.

But i took first chance on a knife, where anything was right. Steel, style, price and, after i recieved it: workmanship.

Ka-bar Heavy Bowie short.:thumbup:
 
Rat Finkenstein said:
1095 is a good steel. I mostly pass on low end stainless.

I would pass on that TOPS because of the design (short little grind.)
Click to expand...

I thought the same thing as you when I first looked at the pics and realized that it was 1/4" stock, but after looking harder at the printed dimensions and comparing them to my USMC Kabar, I figure that the Marine Heat has about the same primary grind angle, maybe even a bit less, which is an angle that I'm pretty o.k. with.

Not that I don't think that 1095 is without merit. I like it, it takes a really sharp edge and is easy to sharpen. But there are steels that, in my experience, take an equally sharp edge, are equally easy to sharpen and are MUCH more corrosion resistant. VG10, for instance.

My problem is that I'd be paying 150 dollars for a design that speaks to me, when for the same amount of money I could buy, say, a Fallkniven A1, with a design that doesn't get my blood pumping as much, but with a MUCH better laminated steel.
 
psy-ops said:
Hell yeah! Price also plays a role.

I would not buy a knife with 440 j or surgical stainless also I am not very keen on 440a -or c.

For example; SOG has a few cool folders but their steel is AUS8 which is a good steel but for $80. I could buy a spyderco with VG-10. So yes, steel is a factor.
Click to expand...

Alright, but have you ever seen a knife in 420j2 or 440A or C that you would have bought with no hesitation if it were made of a better steel, even if it would have been proportionately more expensive?
 
Steel doesn't cut. Geometry does. 420J2 with good geometry beats 1095 with crappy geometry every time.

Steel vs. style is less an issue with me than overall value.
 
Steel:
I buy a few knives with sub-par steels because of interesting/unique designs. The Van Hoy Snap Lock and other CRKT products come to mind. But... the knives must be priced right. I'm not paying 440C or ATS-34 or VG10 prices for a 440A or AUS4 knife!

Style:
I never buy knives that aren't interesting or aesthetically pleasing, no matter how fantastic the steel is supposed to be.

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Regarding the specific knife in question, the TOPS knife in 1095: I'm a big fan of 1095 carbon steel, and wish it was offered on more knives. But I'd never buy a knife that ugly. :p Maybe if they'd clean up the knife's lines, wipe that coating off the blade, and replace the synthetic handles with some nice cocobolo...
 
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