Sub 1 minute sub zero knife and ferro rod fire.

[Woods Walker]

Self sustaining flames in sub one minute in sub zero windy conditions. Naturally the prep work took longer and this is no big deal. Just showing how proper prep really makes all the difference. Odds are most firecraft failures are prep failures not ignition failures or at least that has been the case with me those times I failed in the past.









Crazy cold windy evil a bit later.




Short video because it was a short amount of time being sub one minute and all.

[video=youtube;AJ4ecp8fgQ8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJ4ecp8fgQ8[/video]

Again nothing fantastic but fire in the cold is fun!

 

[W.E.S.T]

Well done and nice knife. What is it?

 

[Woods Walker]

Well done and nice knife. What is it?

MLL Amazon. Going to do an initial impressions review on it today or rather already did the work for the review and just working on the post. Thanks for looking.

 

[upnorth]

Agreed. It is easy to sit in front of a computer and critique someone. But often something else altogether to get out and practice in the cold and wind. I have always challenged myself with crappy weather and local indigenous materials. I just happened to have many bags of birch bark from a northern vacation that the wife and I go on annually....... I believe that this was last year at a local lake and I was running on 5 hours sleep.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wU_Fnau0JA

 

[mete]

It might have been easier if you had built a wind shield of snow first.

 

[Woods Walker]

It might have been easier if you had built a wind shield of snow first.

Not really enough snow but a reflector/windscreen would have been nice for sure. Thanks for looking.

 

[upnorth]

It might have been easier if you had built a wind shield of snow first.

Good idea. But heat with those tools and conditions in one minute is still impressive. Thanks for the reminder to practice in tougher conditions W.W.

 

[Woods Walker]

Good idea. But heat with those tools and conditions in one minute is still impressive. Thanks for the reminder to practice in tougher conditions W.W.

One thing that's hard to express over the internet is how urgent the need for fire can get in cold conditions. For example I started the fire before gathering the Hemlock needles out of necessity. Heck did it before finishing the pot hook at well for similar reasons. The same would apply to the order of operations with shields etc. Hard to do stuff when your hands and face are freezing and fire makes an almost immediate difference wind or not.

 

[upnorth]

One thing that's hard to express over the internet is how urgent the need for fire can get in cold conditions. For example I started the fire before gathering the Hemlock needles out of necessity. Heck did it before finishing the pot hook at well for similar reasons. The same would apply to the order of operations with shields etc. Hard to do stuff when your hands and face are freezing and fire makes an almost immediate difference wind or not.

I respect and appreciate posts like yours. It is one thing to sit on a chair and give opinion, and another to be out in the cold and wet trying to improve. I only took this stuff to a slightly higher level out of fear. I was once nearly lost for the night in rough Boreal forest. I had a few basics with me, folding knife, button compass, water etc. Some basics. None the less I came to realize later that a life messing around outdoors primarily by day, left me obviously unprepared and vulnerable if I didnt get back by dusk, particulary in a foreign remote location. And before that I remember being on the north shore of Lake Athabasca trying to make a fire in extreme cold with local materials and a lighter. I remember the grass being hard to ignite and hold a flame. And my fingers stiffening up quickly. I got a fire going after moving into the brush in crotch deep snow, hands half frozen which alarmed me as it was happening quickly, and a lighter that worked crappily in the cold. Nearly screwing up and spooking myself a few times was what it took to get past my complacency and arrogance....I understood instantly your point about getting a basic fire going immediately. I have been cold enough a few times that I had to stop and make tea because I was afraid of getting colder. And when the hot tea went down I could literaly feel the heat starting then radiating outward from inside. Sounds weird but you can feel it when your body is getting too cold. I still have much to learn and I get a lot of insight from your and other posts, were folks challenge themselves/practice skills outdoors in dangerous weather. And cold wind is indeed dangerous.

 

[Bronze Age Man]

Clothing is your first line of defence. My first thought reading your post was you need better clothing! If you are dressed well enough then you will need to remove some clothes to really appreciate the fire!
You need adequate calories to stay warm, move around but try not to sweat or you may loose the insulation value of your clothes.
Down clothing, heavy windproof fabrics, real fur and leather outer materials work well in the sub zero world. The 'hi tech', 'puffy' stuff will get you from your car to the mall. The low tech native made hats and gloves especially will keep you warm and cosy on the coldest days. Wool full underwear & socks with wool felt lined boots. Keeping your extremities warm is always more difficult.
Modern hi-tech 'artic' gloves are designed to keep your hands cold! Get a pair of long moose hide, felt lined, beaver fur trimmed gloves and you will laugh at what you used to call gloves. Sealskin gloves are the ultimate but hard to find. I buy my real accessories directly from the Cree elders that made them, it's one of very few ways to make extra money. I'm not supporting the fur fashion industry just buying real clothing!
Edit: My wife says "Your wasting your time telling them, just let them get cold".

 

[Woods Walker]

Clothing is your first line of defence. My first thought reading your post was you need better clothing! If you are dressed well enough then you will need to remove some clothes to really appreciate the fire!
You need adequate calories to stay warm, move around but try not to sweat or you may loose the insulation value of your clothes.
Down clothing, heavy windproof fabrics, real fur and leather outer materials work well in the sub zero world. The 'hi tech', 'puffy' stuff will get you from your car to the mall. The low tech native made hats and gloves especially will keep you warm and cosy on the coldest days. Wool full underwear & socks with wool felt lined boots. Keeping your extremities warm is always more difficult.
Modern hi-tech 'artic' gloves are designed to keep your hands cold! Get a pair of long moose hide, felt lined, beaver fur trimmed gloves and you will laugh at what you used to call gloves. Sealskin gloves are the ultimate but hard to find. I buy my real accessories directly from the Cree elders that made them, it's one of very few ways to make extra money. I'm not supporting the fur fashion industry just buying real clothing!
Edit: My wife says "Your wasting your time telling them, just let them get cold".

Naw. Not a waste of time brother. I would love to one day try fur gloves as most often cold hands is the biggest PITA for me. Another BIG thing I need is better footwear for multi day subzero outings. Often the rest of my layered clothing works just fine but the hands and feet suffer a bit when less active.

Edit: Your wife didn't happen to notice the entire knife and ferro rod thing?

Thanks for looking.

 

[Woods Walker]

I respect and appreciate posts like yours. It is one thing to sit on a chair and give opinion, and another to be out in the cold and wet trying to improve. I only took this stuff to a slightly higher level out of fear. I was once nearly lost for the night in rough Boreal forest. I had a few basics with me, folding knife, button compass, water etc. Some basics. None the less I came to realize later that a life messing around outdoors primarily by day, left me obviously unprepared and vulnerable if I didnt get back by dusk, particulary in a foreign remote location. And before that I remember being on the north shore of Lake Athabasca trying to make a fire in extreme cold with local materials and a lighter. I remember the grass being hard to ignite and hold a flame. And my fingers stiffening up quickly. I got a fire going after moving into the brush in crotch deep snow, hands half frozen which alarmed me as it was happening quickly, and a lighter that worked crappily in the cold. Nearly screwing up and spooking myself a few times was what it took to get past my complacency and arrogance....I understood instantly your point about getting a basic fire going immediately. I have been cold enough a few times that I had to stop and make tea because I was afraid of getting colder. And when the hot tea went down I could literaly feel the heat starting then radiating outward from inside. Sounds weird but you can feel it when your body is getting too cold. I still have much to learn and I get a lot of insight from your and other posts, were folks challenge themselves/practice skills outdoors in dangerous weather. And cold wind is indeed dangerous.

Dang that sounds like a cold time for sure. Yup. sometime fire sooner is better than later. One tricky thing with fire IMHO is to balance the amount of prep with the basic need. Often I will process more wood for the tipi than needed. Then during another outing I decide to cut (pun intended) back there is too little. More often does seem to be rewarded and less seems to be punished. Thanks for the real world insight.

 

[upnorth]

The low tech native made hats and gloves especially will keep you warm and cosy on the coldest days. Wool full underwear & socks with wool felt lined boots. Keeping your extremities warm is always more difficult.
Modern hi-tech 'artic' gloves are designed to keep your hands cold! Edit: My wife says "Your wasting your time telling them, just let them get cold".

I understand and appreciate some of what you wrote, but I don"t buy the whole package. My wife is Cree, we have lived on a couple of reserves, and lived in the far north. I agree that a lot of native clothing is highly functional. But I don"t buy into the elitist view that all other clothing is substandard Caucasian junk. The reason that Hudson Bay blankets became such a trade necessity was because of native demand for these exceptionally warm wool European blankets. Myself, I have been out killing ptarmigan in -40 weather with Raber arctic leather gauntlet mitts, and I was perfectly fine. I believe that the military even uses them in the arctic. So yes, I understand that native winter clothing definitely has its merits. But most of us do not, or no longer live near an Elder, making these garments. And their are decent easily accessible options out there for the average Joe, like myself.

 

[sideways]

Mittens.

I have never been warm wearing gloves. I have been warm wearing wool mittens layered under overmittens. Select your overmitten material for desired performance metrics.

I also have some shearling mittens that kick serious butt around town when I'm not looking for the versatility of a layered approach.

 

[Bronze Age Man]

Yes mitts are the warmest. Gauntlet gloves loose at the wrist can get warm air flowing around to the fingers. I have some commercial skidoo gloves that are not bad except on a skidoo where your hands get gradually colder even behind a windshield. I have some 'artic expedition' Marmot mitts that you would leave at home.
Unless you work up in the north it is not so easy to buy Elder made clothes but if you get the chance take it.
I love my 6 point Hudson Bay Blanket. They are on sale 25% off at The Bay right now which is remarkable because I've never seen them on sale before (no I don't work for them!).
My moose hide/beaver hat with flaps is my favourite.
No my wife did not read the knife/ferro rod thing but she can use one.
As for the military using stuff, they rarely spend much if they can avoid it. A friend in the Royal Marines hated his gear, they all did and replaced a lot of it themselves with allowed substitutes, boots, gloves, underwear, winter hats, back pack, binoculars etc. I avoid military stuff for that very reason.

 

[Woods Walker]

No my wife did not read the knife/ferro rod thing but she can use one.

Darn! That was the entire point of the thread. Making a fire with a knife and ferro rod. Sorry she missed it. To be honest the conditions I deal with most which are difficult are just above freezing with rain. Evil stuff. Here is something I like the wear for winter around these parts. Overalls. From a week or so ago. I skinned the orange moose myself for the shirt. Honestly I did!



Good for trail running but those shoes would totally suck on a multi day outing. Gaiters do totally rock however!



Thick wool extra socks, Mora and H&B lady hawk.



More kit. Made some fresh orange paracord lanyards for some of my kit items as things like to walk in the woods.









I can do 15 mile or more miles in a late afternoon/early evening hike (thought longer than 7 is the exception for a conditioning hike/run). The ability to rapidly shed layers keeps overheating down which can easily happen when trail running or dealing with fluffy snow.

 

[Woods Walker]

But I don"t buy into the elitist view that all other clothing is substandard Caucasian junk.

Despite being a Caucasian I somehow survive the woods. It's a miracle! I think there is 5 resident moose in town and the DEP would sh@t if I shot one so moose skins are out.

 

[LostViking]

Woodwalker,

Great post man!

I did the same thing last week. Took shots of the thermo. Headed out, came back in several hours later and shot it again.

I couldn't agree with you more. Prep is the key. I went the ferro rod steel route as well. Dry hemlock underhangings, birch bark, twine, lead, pencil, thumb, took a few strikes of the rod to get it going, but after that it took off,mand never looked back.

I also agree, most fire failures happen in the prep stages. They just don't show themselves until after lighting. Most failures I see are in the "Middle Game" not the ignition, but keeping it going long enough to get the larger wood to burn.

I read Jack London's "To Build a Fire" at an early age. It has been with me ever since. It is a critical skill that I hope ro never really need, but I practice often. I actually start the majority of my fires with a ferro rod. I just can't seem to make Bics work when it gets cold, or when it's wet. And it is almost one or the other around here.

Like you the cold presented itself to me as a challenge. So off I went. In truth, the real challenge that day was not building the fire. It was keeping the beer and Port from freezing. Even burried in the snow, they were freezing faster than I could drink them. Not a problem I usually have.

I had a wool top base layer, a wool blend Union Suit, wool socks, mukluks, insulated/breathable shell pants, wool Boy Scout Shirt, and an Empire Wool and Canvas Grey Wolf on top, with a fur trapper on my head. I had a wind shell anorak with me, but never put it on. I was out in it for about 7 hours. Only the last two sipping beercicyles. I maintained well, especially ingesting copious amounts of sub-freezing liguid. Substitute hot tea or cocoa for the frozen adult beverages and most folks wouln't have suffered too badly.

You must be in the same weather pattern as me. Because we had the same type of day. Usually the wind doesn't howl like it did on those -20 ish days. Wind like that sure does eat wood. And it is a little disheartening to watch all your heat head for the next county.

Great thread!

 

[RayseM]

"... real fur and leather outer materials work well in the sub zero world" I just discovered a company (now based in Maine) that offers their own line of handmade leather and fur clothing, including some very neat hats and gauntlet style mittens from beaver, otter, coon, or skunk fur with buckskin palms. NOT CHEAP but I bet they are warm. I was looking to buy a fur hat for this winter (last winter was pretty brutal) but this year 2 days of sub zero and many more winter days in the high 30s and low 40s. Tomorrow February 25 the expected temps - mid 50s. I can't recall a Maine winter like this in all my years. The fur hat this year would have been a useless extravagance. My old Bean mad bomber works pretty well. Anyway - Glacier Wear is the company - for what it's worth.

Jack London's "To Build a Fire" - make me cringe but it is a great read - 75° below zero and you know the guy is heading for his doom. Never known anything colder than 20° below myself. Can't imagine anything colder and needing to survive in it. I am certainly not prepared in sooo many ways these days, good knife and ferro rod notwithstanding.

Good post WW :thumbup:

 

[JV3]

awesome! the more i think about it the more i like birch bark over fatwood...not that we have any here to begin with...birch bark can be spotted easily even in deep snow and you can gather it and light it without the use of a knife at all.