Sub micron diamond sprays?

T

The_Guide

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Feb 1, 2009
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Hey, just wondering if anyone has any experience with super sub micron diamond sprays (0.05 and 0.025 specifically [note the decimal place], not half and quarter micron but 1/20th and 1/40th micron)

I thought my OCD with sharpening found its match with 0.25 micron sprays... but now I find 0.125, 0.05, and 0.025!! Geez... Yes, I am obsessed with a PERFECT edge, no reason other than personal satisfaction ;)

Im just wondering if anyone knows the natural grit of plain leather's silicates? If plain leather is coarser than 0.025micron I may have to find a new backing... any ideas?

Also, would the next logical step be a completely flat piece of glass with no abrasives? lol... j/k... maybe ;)

So, any thoughts?
:thumbup:
 
All I can say is that I have yet to find a steel that really supports an edge refined with 0.5 micron polish. Perhaps taking the polishing further will yield better results...but I really doubt that the improvement is worth the effort/time investment.

I can not prove it, but with the current crop of steels, there is a serious diminish in returns starting at about 3 microns (at least for what I do....)
 
what are you sharpening?

personally i don't think going sub-micron will yield you much, if any cutting performance over 1.0 - 0.5 micron. even for straight razors, 0.5 - 0.25 micron is as fine as people really use.
 
thanks to ken & jimnolimit for that very good technical info. i have'nt found those facts anywhere else.---dennis
 
The_Guide said:
Im just wondering if anyone knows the natural grit of plain leather's silicates? If plain leather is coarser than 0.025micron I may have to find a new backing... any ideas?
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The natural silicates found in leather vary in size from .01 - .1 micron as a general rule.


Stitchawl
 
and it is what straight razor users generaly finish at.

i've yet to hear someone who shaves comfortably after CrO even less 0,5 diamonds.
 
The sub micron pastes and sprays, especially when used on a balsa wood Edge-Pro blank, can significantly enhance edge retention, cutting ability and aesthetics of the higher end steels. I have used them extensively, with excellent results on S90V, S30V, CPM M-4, VG10 and ZDP189.

I doubt that there would be any real benefit, oither than aesthetics, using them on steels like the 400 series and AUS series steels.

I've not tried them on any of the common carbon steels yet, but I see no reason to believe that they wouldn't be beneficial on carbon steel blades tempered to RC61-62 or harder
 
Sub-micron is a broad term. There is 0.5 micron....and there is 0.025 micron. I would like to review some data regarding the benefits of going to extremes.
 
pwet said:
and it is what straight razor users generaly finish at.

i've yet to hear someone who shaves comfortably after CrO even less 0,5 diamonds.
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for straight razors, the most common finish grit is 0.5 micron chromium oxide. after that it's a quick hit on bare leather.
 
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unit said:
Sub-micron is a broad term. There is 0.5 micron....and there is 0.025 micron. I would like to review some data regarding the benefits of going to extremes.
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i too would like to see/review some data to support that.

from what i have seen both personally and while doing research, after cutting materials like cardboard, paper, rope, rubber, etc, the edge degrades at a much coarser level than sub micron.
 
jimnolimit said:
for straight razors, the most common finish grit is 0.5 micron chromium oxide. after that it's a quick hit on bare leather.
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not to my knowledge.

bare leather is much more than a quick hit for me and every serious straight razor user i talked to. more like one hundred strokes or so after CrO plus a quick hit before each shave until you have to hit the CrO again.

i must be wrong but then everybody on the forum i used to read (not SRP) is.
 
As an addition to every post I made here...all of my thoughts are based on EDC knives.


Straight razors perform a different function alltogether.

I think the sub-micron abrasives the OP is talking about are perhaps for special purpose blades that will not even perform their intended function without such a finish. Just a hunch though...
 
unit said:
As an addition to every post I made here...all of my thoughts are based on EDC knives.


Straight razors perform a different function alltogether.

I think the sub-micron abrasives the OP is talking about are perhaps for special purpose blades that will not even perform their intended function without such a finish. Just a hunch though...
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From my personal experiences with the highly abrsaion resistant, top end steels, I must respectfully disageree.

My knives perform superbly "right out of the box" or I return them for repair.

My four Spyderco Militaries in particular performed beyond any reasonable expectation before being enhanced. After enhancement with ultra fine abrasives, their performance has reached levels that is truly beyond belief.
 
Ben Dover said:
From my personal experiences with the highly abrsaion resistant, top end steels, I must respectfully disageree.

My knives perform superbly "right out of the box" or I return them for repair.

My four Spyderco Militaries in particular performed beyond any reasonable expectation before being enhanced. After enhancement with ultra fine abrasives, their performance has reached levels that is truly beyond belief.
Click to expand...

the factory finish on the edge is pretty coarse. how fine are you taking the edge and have you tested edge retention at different levels of finish?
 
Ben Dover said:
From my personal experiences with the highly abrsaion resistant, top end steels, I must respectfully disageree.

My knives perform superbly "right out of the box" or I return them for repair.

My four Spyderco Militaries in particular performed beyond any reasonable expectation before being enhanced. After enhancement with ultra fine abrasives, their performance has reached levels that is truly beyond belief.
Click to expand...

jimnolimit said:
the factory finish on the edge is pretty coarse. how fine are you taking the edge and have you tested edge retention at different levels of finish?
Click to expand...

I too, am interested in this.
 
jimnolimit said:
the factory finish on the edge is pretty coarse. how fine are you taking the edge and have you tested edge retention at different levels of finish?
Click to expand...

From the factory, they would shave arm hair and marginally push cut newsprint. (with the fibers, but not across them.)

After refinement to .125 CBN, the blades will comfortably shave my face. (Or at least as comfortably as one can expect given the blade geometry.) They push cut both directions, and will split individual hairs. I cannot scientifically quantify edge retention, but they are useable for fine cutting chores for quite a long time. Far longer than when I refined them only to the level of the 10K Chosera stone.
 
So we may better understand...please describe exactly what is meant by "refinement to .125 CBN"

I am curious about your processes and how you are utilizing the scales of abrasives described in the OP.
 
unit said:
So we may better understand...please describe exactly what is meant by "refinement to .125 CBN"

I am curious about your processes and how you are utilizing the scales of abrasives described in the OP.
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After polishing with the 15K Shapton stone, I use balsa wood "strops" glued to EP blanks. The balsa "strops" are loaded with .5 micron diamond spray, .25 micron diamond, then finally .125 micron CBN.

They are used on the EP in a manner similar to stones, but with a draw stroke only, i.e. edge trailing, and a slightly lighter touch.

The edge is regularly examined under a strong fluorescent light with a 10X jeweler's loupe.

This is a somewhat tedious process, and in all likelehood unnecessary, yet I find it quite satisfying to carry a pocket (or hunting) knife that is considerably sharper than my barber's razor. :)
 
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