Subclaw or Subcom for Self Defense?

N

nateak

Joined
Dec 10, 2007
Messages
9
Which one would be a better self defense knife? Would you be limited by getting a Subclaw as opposed to a Subcom.
 
Well said. A blade that size, let alone any blade, should not be a first option when defending youself...
 
I traded my Wharcom away then bought the subclaw.I like to carry it in a closed palm when I get really spooked.If something would happen, I figure it would be a great slasher.Windmill effect.Throw my hand out there and try to cut anything as I back peddle.Of course I really have no clue what I would do till I'm in that spot.Just a theory.Subclaw is way cool knife.
 
Lycosa said:
Both will work, but try running first.
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YES, this should be the first defensive action!!!
But in general, it will work, but more as a back up as a SD tool or fighting knife. You can put it to some action as a kind of "surprise" when no other options are left...
 
Slashing, especially with a small blade would work terribly unless you manage to stabilize the limb in some way first (see some FMA-style limb destructions, etc. where you strike (off-hand) and slash (knife-hand) simultaneously while defending --- basically).

As has been discussed from various situations in which knives have been used, many of the victims thought they were getting punched - the stopping power is simply not there - bleeding out to the point of unconsciousness takes a good long while. Quite a few anecdotes of prison inmates struggling even after suffering 20-40+ stab wounds (how reliable these are, I cannot say).

I personally carry a Subcom F since it is a good utility knife, and is easily concealable - and works alright (not great) in forward grip, edge up. Stabbing and then pulling through is the basic idea at close range, with accompanying striking and foot stomps to ankles/shins with forward momentum - however, my options run 1. prevention, 2. evasion (verbal or physical), and 3. physical aggression followed by immediate evasion if warranted. Physical aggression would go from empty hands -> tools and the Subcom F would be low on my list.
 
senoBDEC said:
As has been discussed from various situations in which knives have been used, many of the victims thought they were getting punched - the stopping power is simply not there - bleeding out to the point of unconsciousness takes a good long while. Quite a few anecdotes of prison inmates struggling even after suffering 20-40+ stab wounds (how reliable these are, I cannot say).
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I agree 100%. A few years ago, I was in a "disagreement" in a Burger King parkinglot. To make a long story short while I was vigorously "discussing" things with the passenger in various locations around the car, the driver got out and punched me in the back. After truning around and handling things with him, I found that I had not been punched but stuck with a big buck knife and it was still hanging out of my back. I panicked and made the mistake of pulling it out and made tracks to the hospital. I bled like a stuck pig but luckliy he didn't hit anything important. Although I technically got the better of the guy, he had the last laugh and now I have a nice butthole looking scar on my back. As I have aged, I have learned the best defense is to run like forrest gump. I've been in Law Enforcement for many years now and can tell you, in a knife fight there are RARELY "winners", everybody gets mangled.
 
DocArnie said:
I've seen a video of two bouncers being stabbed with a folder. They fell where they stood within a second - I think their lungs collapsed.
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Though I am not a professional knife-fighter, I am a medical professional, and can attestto the above statement.
A single "lucky" slash or stab can stop a person immediately, or incapacitate them completely.

There are a surprising number of superficial vessels which are easily severed (even with the smallest of knives), as well as critical supportive structures which can be damaged therefore ending an altercation quickly.

These discussions always surprise me, because I often read things like "Well, you may as well not carry a knife unless you train for 27 years and carry a machete, because you will certainly end up against Bruce Lee--and he will disembowel you in 0.04 seconds with your own knife!"

This strikes me funny, because I have a fair number of patients who have been attacked, and were beaten severely.
Comas, traumatic brain injuries, loss of a limb (compartment syndrome), para/quadraplegia, severe chronic pain, impotence, chronic seizures, loss of sight and/or hearing, rape, PTSD, etc...all without any weapon.

The idea that a knife could make it worse is laughable.
"Careful---you might make them mad and escalate the situation!"
A knife, with a little tecnique and luck, may have saved them from a horrible outcome.

In my opinion, a knife can heavily tip the scales in favor of the weaker person, because a simple slash, which requires little strength, can result in a fatal (or severely debilitating) wound to the attacker.
Other than a firearm or pepper spray, how else would my 4'11" 100lb wife defend herself against a 6' 200lb attacker?
A single stab to the axilla, slash ot the upper arm/thigh/neck may

Even wounds that weren't fatal have been ugly, requiring multiple surgeries and long hospitalizations.
 
I guess this discussion is heading to the practical tactical arena, but I think that people rely too much on a knife as a talisman to keep away the bad stuff. If they have that knife, they won't get into trouble, or if they get into trouble and pull that knife, it ends the trouble. By all means carry a knife. By all means, use that knife if you need it. Understand that a knife all by itself won't protect you.

To steer this back on-topic. ANY weapon that you have is better than nothing. I don't think there'd be much difference between a subcom and a subclaw. a subclaw will do more ripping damage, but has more of a chance of getting stuck and wrenched away from you. a subcom would produce cleaner, yet more superficial slashes, and would be better at thrusts/stabs.

keep in mind. it's best to not be in a situation. next best is to run from a situation. next is to hand over your wallet and walk away. confrontation is always a last resort.
 
So far, I think this is a good, productive discussion, although, as mentioned,
it is veering toward PracTac material, and not manufacture discussion.

I have been reading this, and letting it develop on its own, but would like to say a few things.First, for those who don't know I moonlight as one of the Contact Weapons mods over on TPI, so I think I can speak to this sufficiently.
Any knife can be used in a self defense situation, it is the man in the fight, not the tool that determines the outcome. As we say at TPI, it is the software, not the hardware that carries the day.
As far as SubCom vs. SubClaw, that is dependent on your personal choice.
I think the Claw is a better choice due to the curve of the blade providing deeper slashes. If you know what you are doing, you can easily thrust with it as well, which causes a hell of a wound channel, somewhat surprisingly. Reference the Emerson LaGriffe article on www.donrearic.com for an idea on what the SubClaw can do, as well as Mercops review. Remember, even Fred Perrin, designer/maker of the LaGriffe liked the SubCom, and thought it effective, and some of his students are testing the 'Claw now.
Thanks, Terry
 
I vote for leaving it here, even with all the PracTac material. I'm especially interested in the CLB Bokers, especially since I carry the Subcom, and I'm waiting for a Subclaw, and I just got an M-Type.

It is the software, not the hardware, that you need most, but the right hardware is better than any old tool if you can have it with you, and these little knives are very convenient, even in places where anything larger would be problematical.

Being small, they do require close contact and some skill to be effective, but as Mercop showed, that skill is accessible.
 
Lycosa, it's an incredible knife. One more absolute success for Chad and Boker. This is their first real fullsize carry knife. I sliced up three apples with it Sunday night, and the thin blade slipped through them like they weren't there.

The handle is typical of the series with a secure and comfortable grip. The blade pops out at a flick of the thumbstud. The coating looks really good, a bit somber and serious. Of course, I don't know yet how it will hold up, but I'll find out. I put my Military away and I'm carrying this now.

I recommend the M enthusiastically. It's big but not outsize and it can replace the Trance. No, I'm not getting rid of my Trance, either. :)
 
Agreed Esav, I think it should stay here, and I am actually pretty happy
to see this discussion develop.
I always hoped people would see the SD value of the Sub series, and this only helps.
Thanks, Terry
 
congrats on the MType Esav :thumbup::cool:

hypermtype168.jpg

Mtypee060.jpg

Mtypee052.jpg
 
So, the subclaw would produce the most vicious wound, while the subcom would be lest likely to get caught, or fouled, if you will, in tissue. So if we add the wharcom to the discussion, it would likely split the difference between the two: open up a larger wound channel than the subcom, but be less likely to get caught on something than the subclaw.
 
I wanna say that the serrations on the M look a lot like those on my Emerson, maybe coincidence. Gonna pick up a Subcom, a Trance and a MPT tomorrow, all black XD
 
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