suggest a lawman equivalent w/ different lock

M

Muaddib1116

Joined
Dec 26, 2010
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I love my Persistence, and I've abused it, but it's not really a super tough knife, I just feel comfortable abusing it because it's an inexpensive knife. The Lawman on the other hand is, in my opinion, a tough knife, and I'm not really talking about the lock. It has a strong blade and grind, and a strong pivot. Can anyone suggest a knife of similar toughness with a liner lock at a comparable price point (let's say less than $60)? I'm not in any particular need (since I do own a Lawman, I'm just curious.
 
Buck Strider 889 does wonderfully for me as a hard use knife, the lock could use some work though, mine engages far too early so im working on shaving the tang to a proper curvature.

could also think of Kershaw needs work, Enlan EL-01b, and Ontario Rat 1 as all hard use knives
 
Id pass on the buck due to the thin liner.
 
Why do you want a tough knife with arguably one of the weakest lock designs available?

Edit: Everyone likes to say how the Triad is the king of locks and there is nothing that comes remotely close in strength of the all mighty Triad. And you want a knife that is just as tough but with a lock that is just not tough. I don't understand the motive?
 
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I'm just wondering if there is something like that out there. As much as I feel that I have a handle on most of the good knife brands and models out there, there's always stuff I've never heard of. As for the lock, I feel that a well made liner lock is pretty adequate. There are plenty of applications for a burly blade and pivot design that don't put overwhelming force on the lock. I know there are plenty of arguments about locks, and I'm not against strong locks, but I generally don't think they are necessary so I don't put them too high on my knife buying criteria. I would rather have a really strong pivot and stop pin. The Persistence/Tenacious line of knives are solid users in my opinion, but not super robust, at least not on the level that the Lawman is. They use a 1/8" stop pin, the pivot is what I would call average, and the FFG distal tapered blade is great for everyday utility and slicing, but its weak at prying and I wouldn't want to do anything too crazy with it. Again, it's not that I have a real need for a liner-lock Lawman, I just want to expand my knife lexicon.
 
Muaddib1116 said:
I'm just wondering if there is something like that out there. As much as I feel that I have a handle on most of the good knife brands and models out there, there's always stuff I've never heard of. As for the lock, I feel that a well made liner lock is pretty adequate. There are plenty of applications for a burly blade and pivot design that don't put overwhelming force on the lock. I know there are plenty of arguments about locks, and I'm not against strong locks, but I generally don't think they are necessary so I don't put them too high on my knife buying criteria. I would rather have a really strong pivot and stop pin. The Persistence/Tenacious line of knives are solid users in my opinion, but not super robust, at least not on the level that the Lawman is. They use a 1/8" stop pin, the pivot is what I would call average, and the FFG distal tapered blade is great for everyday utility and slicing, but its weak at prying and I wouldn't want to do anything too crazy with it. Again, it's not that I have a real need for a liner-lock Lawman, I just want to expand my knife lexicon.
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So what's wrong with the Tenacious if you don't think a strong lock is necessary? As mentioned earlier why do you want a burly knife with a less than strong lock? What tasks are you going to be doing with a knife that doesn't strain the lock that the Tenacious is not burly enough for?
 
Dude if you want a solid linerlock that you can beat on just try the Enlan EL-01!!

[video=youtube;d9Agy18nm2E]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9Agy18nm2E[/video]

Oh...also forget about that 60$ range!
You can get one for 15 bucks!!!:eek:
 
singularity35 said:
So what's wrong with the Tenacious if you don't think a strong lock is necessary? As mentioned earlier why do you want a burly knife with a less than strong lock? What tasks are you going to be doing with a knife that doesn't strain the lock that the Tenacious is not burly enough for?
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I think that most of my statement that you quoted answers your questions. So, you're saying that the only uses for a burly knife are uses that require a strong lock? I'm really not trying to start a discussion about the virtues of a strong lock, there are already plenty of arguments about that. As I said, I believe that there are uses for a burly knife where the lock strength is not a factor. And as for why I'm looking for suggestions for a knife that is similar in some ways to the Lawman but different in other ways, it's mostly because I like knives and sometimes I buy knives that are similar to knives I already own.
 
Muaddib1116 said:
I think that most of my statement that you quoted answers your questions. So, you're saying that the only uses for a burly knife are uses that require a strong lock? I'm really not trying to start a discussion about the virtues of a strong lock, there are already plenty of arguments about that. As I said, I believe that there are uses for a burly knife where the lock strength is not a factor. And as for why I'm looking for suggestions for a knife that is similar in some ways to the Lawman but different in other ways, it's mostly because I like knives and sometimes I buy knives that are similar to knives I already own.
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My point is not about whether you need a strong lock or not. Rather, I'm curious as to what tasks you are planning on that the tenacious is not burly enough for that will not strain the liner lock on the tenacious. Are you planning to pry with the tip or the blade? Enlighten me because prying is the only "hard use" task I can imagine that will break a tenacious yet will not strain the lock.

If you are just planning on cutting things, the blade of the tenacious is pretty thick if you measure it from the edge to the spine where the direction of the force is going to be when cutting with the edge.
 
A better question might be what are you using a burly knife for that requires a burly lock? I can think of only a few things I do with a knife where the lock takes a lot of force, chief of those is stabbing, secondly torqing off zipties which really needs a picture to describe but I don't have one. Everything else could be done with a slipjoint, including light batoning, drilling, use as a pry tool/screwdriver/insert abuse use here...

I would suggest a used Emerson perhaps? You'll have a hard time finding one for that cheap, but used cqc7s can go for around $75. Thick blades, with a stout build and a Ti liner lock. Honestly the cold steel offerings are the best bang for you buck for a tough knife, and I'm NOT a fan of the company but there isn't much competition in that price range.
 
EricV said:
A better question might be what are you using a burly knife for that requires a burly lock? I can think of only a few things I do with a knife where the lock takes a lot of force, chief of those is stabbing, secondly torqing off zipties which really needs a picture to describe but I don't have one. Everything else could be done with a slipjoint, including light batoning, drilling, use as a pry tool/screwdriver/insert abuse use here...

I would suggest a used Emerson perhaps? You'll have a hard time finding one for that cheap, but used cqc7s can go for around $75. Thick blades, with a stout build and a Ti liner lock. Honestly the cold steel offerings are the best bang for you buck for a tough knife, and I'm NOT a fan of the company but there isn't much competition in that price range.
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I agree, if you don't need a burly lock, you probably don't need a burly knife. You just said it better than I could.
 
I'm not exactly sure that Eric was entirely agreeing with you. I'm sure there are cutting tasks where you might be torquing the blade through a thick material, which would put a lot of lateral stresses on the wide FFG of a Tenacious/Persistence but which don't put stress on the lock. I would think that chopping or hacking also don't stress a lock much, but would put a lot of stress on the pivot pin and stop pin.

Really, it's not that I'm looking for strong knife with a weak lock, I'm looking for a strong knife with a different lock than the Tri-Ad. As much as I appreciate the Tri-Ad's design, I sometimes get tired of the dis-engagement effort required, and I don't always like the back lock style. I should have made that more clear in my OP that the liner-lock was a suggestion. Although from what I know there aren't many knives in that price range that are frame locks or compression locks.

As for the Enlan, I've decided to stop buying knives from the Chinese manufacturers for various reasons that have nothing to do with them being manufactured in China by Chinese companies.
 
have you looked at what kershaw has to offer?

they have alot of nice liner locking folders at that price point
 
Muaddib1116 said:
I'm not exactly sure that Eric was entirely agreeing with you. I'm sure there are cutting tasks where you might be torquing the blade through a thick material, which would put a lot of lateral stresses on the wide FFG of a Tenacious/Persistence but which don't put stress on the lock. I would think that chopping or hacking also don't stress a lock much, but would put a lot of stress on the pivot pin and stop pin.

Really, it's not that I'm looking for strong knife with a weak lock, I'm looking for a strong knife with a different lock than the Tri-Ad. As much as I appreciate the Tri-Ad's design, I sometimes get tired of the dis-engagement effort required, and I don't always like the back lock style. I should have made that more clear in my OP that the liner-lock was a suggestion. Although from what I know there aren't many knives in that price range that are frame locks or compression locks.

As for the Enlan, I've decided to stop buying knives from the Chinese manufacturers for various reasons that have nothing to do with them being manufactured in China by Chinese companies.
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As you can see, it is I who is agreeing with Eric.

You are probably going to be better suited with a fixed blade if you intend to chop and hack and torque your knife in thick material. :p

Additionally, you are going to hack and chop with a folder the size of the AL? Also, when you hack and chop and embed your blade into the material, how are you going to pull it out without stressing the lock?
 
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singularity35 said:
As you can see, it is I who is agreeing with Eric.

You are probably going to be better suited with a fixed blade if you intend to chop and hack and torque your knife in thick material. :p

Additionally, you are going to hack and chop with a folder the size of the AL? Also, when you hack and chop and embed your blade into the material, how are you going to pull it out without stressing the lock?
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Pulling a blade out of branch that you've been chopping won't stress any well implemented lock to the point of failure. But since I'm tired of trying to explain myself, I will concede the point. The use of a burly knife requires an equally burly lock.

mrdavidross321 said:
have you looked at what kershaw has to offer?

they have alot of nice liner locking folders at that price point
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I haven't, but I will. A quick search of their products found the One Ton, which seems to meet some of my search criteria. I can't find any specs on blade thickness, but for the price, I might just go out on a limb and buy it. Aside from their ZT line I haven't really considered Kershaws as hard use knives.
 
Muaddib1116 said:
Pulling a blade out of branch that you've been chopping won't stress any well implemented lock to the point of failure. But since I'm tired of trying to explain myself, I will concede the point. The use of a burly knife requires an equally burly lock.
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You could have just "out with it" and said it was more for curiosity's sake rather than imagine a "real world" use for a burly knife with a non-burly lock. ;)

Peace bro, and here's to clear thinking.
 
If toughness and liner lock are mainly what you're after, may I suggest the ZT0200. Bigger, recurve and a bit different, but an excellent knife.
 
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