Super glue as a finish for a stacked leather handle

J

Joneserlax

Joined
Apr 18, 2014
Messages
25
Hey all,

So I've been reading up on using CA glue or super glue as a finish for wood, and recently have seen more and more about it's use on leather. I have a stacked leather handle knife im working on, and for some reason i haven't been able to find much, even in these forums, about what finish to use on stacked leather handles. So i want to try this on the leather handled knife, but my experiences with super glue, at least on wood, have varied. It's turned white on me too many times. Ive found only one article about super glue as a wood finish that focuses on the turning white and chalky aspect. However, the article confuses me:

http://www.huntchat.com/showthread.php?t=47955
The author of the article uses his finger as a brush, keeping the glue wet and moving it around. Then he says "The same goes for touching the wet glue with your finger. The moisture in your skin will also turn the glue white."

So what gives? What makes the glue turn white? I know its moisture, and he says touching it will turn it white. but he uses his hand with good results. Im missing something

Thank you
 
My only experience with super glue finishes involve home brew mycarta. They only issues I have had with a white discoloration have been if I carelessly left some sanding dust on the handle when I applied the super glue.

I know it isn't the finish you are asking about, but have you considered Tru-Oil to finish your leather handle? I have used it on the 2 stacked leather handles I made and was well pleased.

Chris
 
On leather stacked handles, I use Teak wood oil. This oil drys hard and buffs out like a mirror. It is much better than wax, etc.
 
Curing oil finishes are the desired method for leather. A hardening resin, like CA or epoxy, would make the leather HARD. That isn't why you use leather. Oils penetrate the leather and cures, thus still leaving the leather with some pliability. Linseed, Neatsfoot, teak, tung, etc. all are used.

The classic method was to immerse the leather handle in linseed for two to six weeks and then wipe it off. It took up to several months for the oil to cure. The modern oils are faster drying ( because they add dryers) and are used more now.

Another old method of finishing leather handles is to dip in melted beeswax and then rub briskly with a cloth until it is shiny. Don't overheat the wax, and don't put the leather in for long. This method was popular because it left the leather pliable as well as sealed the handle from moisture getting in around the fittings and corroding the blade.
 
He probably uses latex or rubber gloves to do the finish. I tried it once and used latex and it worked fine. Be advised, it gives off a lot of fumes and you are hunched over the handle for a while doing it. Take a break and get air.... just saying. It does turn out nice but it is a lot of work.
 
CA glue works and some like the hardness Vs the oil finishes.
Wear heavy rubber gloves and a respirator as the CA glue is toxic stuff.
 
"The classic method was to immerse the leather handle in linseed for two to six weeks and then wipe it off. It took up to several months for the oil to cure. The modern oils are faster drying ( because they add dryers) and are used more now."

Well, i did the classic method and used boiled linseed oil, but as you said the modern oils dry faster. Ive waited a month now for it to dry, frustrated the whole time as it looks terrible imo. It's basically dry now, too soft for my taste as it hasnt hardened it in the least and way too dark. I respect your opinion but for what im looking for oil is not what i see used the most, and this is said after much research. I think maybe it just depends what is the desired end result.

What i have now is a really ugly dark handle that looks like this..
Dadsknife.jpg


When what i was going for looks more like this.. https://www.ragweedforge.com/3445.jpg

So, from what ive gather spar urethane has been used in the past for the hard leather handles, and more fecently, CA glue. Any suggestions on how to achieve a harder, not as dark and wet looking leather?
 
These are the 2 I did a few months back. They are still darker than you the one you referred to, but have more of the classic look imo. If memory serves, I gave them 2 coats of neatsfoot oil, followed by 6 or 8 coats of Tru-oil over about a week period. All the oil applications were rubbed on with a soft rag. I didn't "soak" the handles in the oil.


Chris
 
Wow, a bit dark sure but those look awesome and arent so dark where you lose the definition of the leather, which was what i'm scared of when the leather gets too dark. Im surprised you were able to get those so glossy with just oil. I think next time i could tighten the pommel more and compress the leather further, to make it a bit firmer. And maybe then it would be easier for me to get a smooth, shiny look to the leather with just oil
 
I don't make leather grips but just try this, it was taught to me for leather edges on saddles and it works good for sheath edges too. Just use paraffin on plain white canvas. Rub the paraffin into the canvas, dampen the leather (be sure its is sanded smooth and clean) and burnish the leather with the canvas. Please practice on some scrap leather first. I suspect the old cutlers did something quite similar on the production line with this easy method and a slow turning canvas buffer wheel.

I have used leather spacers between stainless steel and had great results with the thin super glue soaked in. It does turn very dark and hard, not what we want for an entire handle. Leather is beautiful and IMO should be light colored not darkened with oils. It gets dark enough with sweat and old age.

Super glue dries quickly when the oxygen is taken away. Thats what water does, it takes the air from it and it dries instantly turning it cloudy or crusty white. Just let super glue dry on its own, overnight is best.
 
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Actually, it is the opposite. CA will last a very long time if kept completely from air and the moisture it contains.
Cyanoacrylate polymerizes by the addition of hydroxide ions to the monomers thus causing a strong polymer bond. Since water is actually hydrogen hydroxide , HOH, not H2O, the presence of even a small amount of moisture is what drives the reaction. This is why CA will stick to fingers instantly, and may take days to fully cure in a very tight joint like two pieces of metal tightly pressed together. The edges will react with moisture in the air, but the presented surface is so small that the reaction progresses slowly. Once the outside edges polymerize, the hydroxide ions loose the ability to penetrate any farther. The bond around the edge will be strong, but the CA in the center of the two plates may never cure.

Heat releases the hydroxides from the polymer and resorts back to monomers, and will break down a CA joint. A little known tip is to put your CA in small plastic bottles with a thin metal tip on the bottle. The tip will clog with polymer in an hour or so. To use the CA the next time, gently heat the tip with a small flame or other heat source while pressing on the bottle sides. The tip will clear itself instantly and you are good to go. I buy these bottles in 50 packs for pennies a bottle.
 
I've been doing ferro rod handles using stacked leather and CA. It can be pretty tricky, especially so in my case because I don't have the benefit of "caps" at either end of the stack. The two holes (lanyard and rod) further take away surface area for bonding. CA is the only way I've found that really adds strength and stability to my handles.

I encounter the white you mention, but I like to use the CA as an impregnation rather than a coating, meaning, I sand it off to the surface of the leather. The stack is still rock hard, but it looks nice. You can take it to the buffer to shine. CA is more or less a liquid plastic, at least that's my understanding. White (plastics) buffing compound on the wheel does a nice job. A new buffing wheel can leave a lot of lint on the leather so keep that in mind.

I also use instant set spray.

Here are my steps-

Squeeze a standard size tube (I buy them in bulk) into a small disposable plastic container (I also buy these in bulk from the dollar store, something like 8 for a buck)

Use an acid brush to liberally apply the glue. Do this a few times.

Hand sand to the surface removing all (surface) glue.

Reapply glue the small plastic containers don't let the glue dry quickly and I find that I have plenty of working time.

Spray with insta-set between coats.

Sand glue off, again, to the surface.

Buff with white compound to desired shine.

Your sandpaper grit matters. Sand to at least 400 before buffing.

I'm not sure if my method will work for you. I've done quite a bit of work with CA and it's often a matter of experimenting in order to find the right method for you. It certainly can be tricky, but if you are looking for the combination of qualities that CA offers, it's worth the effort to learn. ;)
 
Joneserlax said:
Wow, a bit dark sure but those look awesome and arent so dark where you lose the definition of the leather, which was what i'm scared of when the leather gets too dark. Im surprised you were able to get those so glossy with just oil. I think next time i could tighten the pommel more and compress the leather further, to make it a bit firmer. And maybe then it would be easier for me to get a smooth, shiny look to the leather with just oil
Click to expand...

That may be your major culprit. If you didn't compress the leather prior to putting them on the knife handle, I would imagine it soaked oil all the way through. On my handles I soaked the washers in water and then stacked them on an all thread. Twice a day for a week I cranked the stack down as tight as I could. This fully compressed the leather as it dried. It also bonded the stack together. It came off the all thread in a block instead of individual washers.

Chris
 
Forgot to mention that compressing is critical. I take a piece of 8/9oz veg tanned then case it put cling wrap (without wrinkles) on both sides and compress between two big pieces of granite. Leave overnight and it'll be tough as hell.

Here are some of my stacks after compression, cutting and epoxy.

0BC6iYM.jpg


Cutting before compression will be much easier, but you have to make sure they all stay oriented correctly. It's easier for me to compress a whole sheet. I'm making a punch to make this step easier.
 
An even simpler method is to drill 1/4" holes in all the pieces and assemble on a 1/4" wooden dowel. Compress during glue up and let cure. Drill out the dowel when drilling the tang hole.
 
Even without CA and only using an epoxy to keep the pieces together my leather was/is darker than the stack in the photo. I use regular russet veg tanned Herman Oak. I've had darker leather from Wickett & Craig, but nothing lighter than the HO and that includes veg tanned pig skin. It should be easy to do a stack using dyed leather. For a stack that light I'd use dyed pieces or light colored spacers.
 
Another option you might consider is replacing the leather with birch bark. You may have an easier go at attaining your desired results with the bark.

Chris
 
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