Super narrow sharpening angles. What's the point, literally?

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Jul 16, 2005
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I'm a pretty darn good knife sharpener and my knives are always hair popping sharp. I typically sharpen them at 20 to 25 degrees per side (so 40 to 50 total) and they are scary hair-shaving sharp at that angle AND my edges really last. I see guys sharpening at much narrower angles. Sharp is sharp, right? I guess in my mind, a more acute will only be less durable, correct? Enlighten me please.
 
I find a balance for each given steel. Steel '1' might be average at 25 dps , better at 20 dps, best at 15 and start degrading again as it gets steeper. While steel 2 might be average at 25, best at 18 and degrade as it gets steeper. I find fat angles don't hold up long as thinner edges , and stupid thin edges don't hold up as well as thicker edges. I look for the balance
 
Have you tried taking a knife down to less than 25 degrees inclusive? Here's a post I made not long ago about the Caly 3.5:

Here's a few pics of my 3.5 that I've taken down to 20 degrees inclusive:






Some steels, properly heat treated, can take and hold a more acute or narrower angle than other steels. The thinner the angles - not just at the microbevel, but also at the bevel and the primary grind - the thinner the blade is behind the edge. Sharpness can be achieved even with a 90 degree inclusive angle: glass typically breaks near that, and glass shards are plenty sharp enough to shave with.

Think of cutting something as rolling a 200 pound cart up an incline of a fixed length of 20 feet. You can roll the cart up a 20 foot long 45 degree slope (your knife), or you can roll the cart up a 20 foot long 20 degree slope (my knife). Which one will be easier to roll the cart up?

Interestingly, in some cases a knife doesn't even need to be sharp to cut. Box cutters are typically pitifully dull, but they still are able to be used to cut cardboard even when dull due to the edge geometry of the blade.

Hard, tough, and strong steels can take a more acute angle while still retaining all the toughness of another steel at a more obtuse angle. If you appropriately use the correct angles and grinds for different steels, you can get an enormous increase in cutting potential without losing much of anything in the process. In fact, there are a few videos on Youtube showing that two knives with the same steel and heat treat, but one has narrow bevels while the other has thick ones, are pounded through some copper pipe. Interestingly the knife with the thinner bevels did better because, it seems, that less force was required for it to cut through the copper pipe.
 
I find a balance for each given steel. Steel '1' might be average at 25 dps , better at 20 dps, best at 15 and start degrading again as it gets steeper. While steel 2 might be average at 25, best at 18 and degrade as it gets steeper. I find fat angles don't hold up long as thinner edges , and stupid thin edges don't hold up as well as thicker edges. I look for the balance

That's hard to argue with and its basically what I do. I'd just like to add that optimizing an edge to the task seems to be a good idea to me.
 
I'd like to take some of my knives to 30 degrees
But I need to get an EP or Wicked Edge sometime
 
I usually go by hardness.

also I find that steep angles plus microbevel or convexing improves durability while keeping most of that scary goodness.

ive always experimented with sharpening and then carve some wood to see how long it lasts.

For my work knives ive had to find ways to keep them super sharp for as long as possible, and I found convexing was my answer with very steep bevels.
 
If you take 2 knives with the same finish , lets say a 5k finish. One is 50* inclusive and one is 25* inclusive , obviously the one that's 25* inclusive is going to cut much better.

I have knives that are below 20* inclusive. And let me tell you this , there are some extraordinary things that you can do with those types of edges , especially when you push those edges over 160,000 grit.... Totally different than 160,000 at 40* or 50* inclusive.....

I care little about steel hardness , I care much more about grain structure.... I prefer a finely grained steel at 60HRC than a coarsely grained steel at 65HRC....

Of course at this level of refinement there are so many other factors that come into play....
 
The angle should be as steep as the steel and intended use of the knife will allow without chipping or otherwise failing during intended use. In other words, the goal is to get your angle as acute as possible.
 
The angle should be as steep as the steel and intended use of the knife will allow without chipping or otherwise failing during intended use. In other words, the goal is to get your angle as acute as possible.

This^
They perform better for longer. CATRA testing is pretty consistent on this point. I seldom go above 32 inclusive anymore, even on heavy choppers.
 
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