Super Steel Liner Locks?

cbrstar

cbrstar

Joined
Sep 7, 2015
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It's easy to get focused on the steel a blade is made from and the pro's and cons. But after watching some lock fail vids on you tube, I started to think about what steel the actual lock is made from on various knives?

A few questions I have is...

1) Liner locks can wear out though that may take years. So would a high wear resistant super steel be beneficial? Or would it be too brittle?

2) Do many brands just use the cheapest steel possible, and what effect does the heat treating to turn it into spring steel have?

3) Would that be a selling point to have a knife with a better steel lock, or is it a non-issue?

4) Most liner locks can already withstand hundreds of pounds of pressure, but would using a super steel possibly make them stronger?

5) Is there brands that already use higher grade steels for their liner locks and if so who are they?
 
I just thought it was weird how we care about the blade and the handle material, but seem to ignore what material an essential part of the knife is made from.
 
I don't think most liner locks can withstand hundreds of pounds of pressure, but most are adequate for the job. My sense is that when a liner lock fails, it either slips or bends. So maybe some of the better steels run hard would add strength to the liner lock and reduce the potential to fail by bending. But you'd add weight over a titanium liner.
 
Twindog said:
I don't think most liner locks can withstand hundreds of pounds of pressure, but most are adequate for the job. My sense is that when a liner lock fails, it either slips or bends. So maybe some of the better steels run hard would add strength to the liner lock and reduce the potential to fail by bending. But you'd add weight over a titanium liner.
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I totally had forgotten about Titanium. That might be interesting to find out how well they hold out against steel? And if they are more prone to bending as I've hear titanium can be quite flexible.
 
Titanium is more flexible than steel, but that means you can make the lockbar thicker while still maintaining a reasonable amount of flexibility to unlock it. Titanium has poor abrasion resistance compared to steel of the same hardness. That said, Chris Reeves has been making titanium frame locks for a few decades, from what I’ve heard they hold up well.

I doubt you’ll see full hardened lockbars because they’ll be brittle and hard to unlock unless they’re really thin. Even then they’d be weaker and still brittle.

Some companies put hardened steel inserts on the locking face of the titanium lockbars for wear resistance, but this would theoretically make the knife weaker before it unlocks. Titanium has some “lock stick” that actually helps keep the knife locked open. I’ve never had a failure with either one, but there’s a whole thread that I remember seeing about zt’s having lock failures; but again, I don’t think that the steel insert or the titanium is to blame even if there is actually a problem.

It’s not a liner lock, but on the Spyderco Caribbean they use the same steel in the blade and the liners for rust resistance.
 
Alberta Ed said:
I suspect that the liner locks on my Sebbie and Emerson (titanium) and Military (steel) will outlast me.
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True, I think for a lot people its a non issue. Then there's some people where a knife is nothing short of an adult fidget spinner lol.

The only time personally i came across it was my Dads inexpensive Gerber. In the course of two years using it every day at his work in a electrical box manufacturing plant the lock wore out. But in defence the entire knife was worn out from the lock to the pivots and was thrown away. I bought him a CRKT and that one has been holding up better.

Edit* I forgot that when I was a kid my friends Dad gave him a Buck 110 that was extremely old even back then. The lock had lost its springyness and i think it was also worn. If you were not careful you could accedentaly unlock it.
 
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I think liner-locks are fine the way they are. The main advantages of a liner-lock in my opinion are ease of use and simplicity. As long as they are well-made, I wouldn't worry about them. I, for one, personally enjoy liner-locks, and although my Real Steel T101 Thor uses a liner-lock, I do consider it to be my beefiest folder, even compared with my two Tri-Ad lock Cold Steels.

I don't like the idea of hardening a locking liner, by the way, whether it be by heat treatment or use of a harder steel. I suspect the locking liner on my Ontario RAT Model 1 is hardened. It's pretty stiff, and that combined with its thinness and gimping make it rather painful to disengage. In fact, I have to be mindful to use the flesh of my thumb and avoid the thumbnail as it'll dig a choil in my thumbnail. I wish they went with a thicker lock-bar instead of a hardened thin one. The Spyderco Tenacious, for example, has a thicker lock-bar and it's much easier to disengage than the RAT, but I have no concerns about that lock, it's solid as a rock.

I think as long as you use a folder as a folder, I think a well-made liner-lock will be much stronger than you'll ever need it to be. Heck, I've freed a crocodile from climbing rope with my RAT...
 
anything can fail but, ive had my ZT 0301 for about 8 years and its never failed and it gets a lot of hard use.
 
The stop pin is a critical part that can be fairly easily deformed if not very strongly built . Just a small amount of indentation can screw up the lock function in frame locks . Very aggravating to try to fix IMO . :mad::thumbsdown:
 
I don't believe Dozier uses a stop pin in he's liner lock. If a linerlock is made correctly, why would it need a stop pin ?
 
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M. Johnwell said:
Chris Reeves has been making titanium frame locks for a few decades, from what I’ve heard they hold up well.
Some companies put hardened steel inserts on the locking face of the titanium lockbars for wear resistance,
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IIRC, the "exposed end" of Chris Reeve lockbar is case-hardened (carburized)...which greatly increases the wear resistance and decreases the friction... Never saw any lock-stick with ~30 Sebbies that I've owned.
I have owned a number of nice folders (ZT's) with stainless steel inserts on the locking face...they always worked very well for me.
Sort of a non-issue, IMO.
 
The north arms knives Skaha is made with an s35vn blade and an s35vn liner lock.

But really I do not think you hsve anything to worry about unless your buying really crappy knives.
 
cbrstar said:
I totally had forgotten about Titanium. That might be interesting to find out how well they hold out against steel? And if they are more prone to bending as I've hear titanium can be quite flexible.
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A flexible and springy liner is desirable. In compression failure, you want the liner to deform and jam the blade open, not to fail catastrophically and allow the blade to close.

Airborne 1 said:
I don't believe Dozier uses a stop pin in he's liner lock. If a linerlock is made correctly, why would it need a stop pin ?
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Liner locks require a stop mechanism just like a frame lock. The blade must be stopped from swiveling in both directions, not just closed.

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Diagram source: here​
 
Airborne 1 said:
Like I said Dozier workhorse doesn't use a stop pin.
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You suggested that a correctly made liner lock doesn't need a stop pin, which is why I bothered to reply. I didn't know about Dozier, that's interesting. What does he do instead?
 
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