Superman is dead

[trane fan]

Christopher Reeve passed away on Sunday. The man demonstrated incredible grace and strength during the years he suffered from paralysis. He used his own tragedy as a platform from which he could advocate for other disabled folks who lacked the notoriety to call attention to their needs. RIP Superman.

 

[koj11]

I have mixed feelings on him. While I do believe his monetary donations were generous and helpful to a degree, and he showed some backbone (pun intended) in some things he did "post accident", he certainly didn't care enough about the issue to help in any way before it directly affected him...

I did like the first two superman movies, though....

 

[Kampfjaeger]

Koj11,

Are you kidding me? I guess you're perfect and champion every good cause there is - even before one affects you directly. Kudos to you champ.

 

[T. Erdelyi]

Not to take away from SM but I get tired of the memorials and the public sypathy for well known celebrity deaths, no one mourned the death of my old man except his friends and family, it's hard to mourn for someone who I have no connection with other than seeing him on a big screen.

Sorry if I sound down, October 25 1975 was the day my old man died in a plane crash, I was 15 at the time, and devestated by the loss of him and 5 other close friends who had gone hunting.

Sometimes when famous people get the publics sympathy I get Po'd cause my old man meant nothing to them and he was as great a man as any celebrity who's died recently or in past years.

Sorry for the downer I get a little bummed this time of year, the most depressing part is that my 13 year old daughter never got to meet him and discover what great man he was for herself.

Hey Chris, say hello to the old man for me will ya?

Another quote from my old man,"It's not what they say about ya while yer here, but the things that they say about ya after yer dead that'll be remembered."

See ya on the otherside old man.

P.S., Chris R., RIP and may God take care of your family.

 

[koj11]

Koj11,

Are you kidding me? I guess you're perfect and champion every good cause there is - even before one affects you directly. Kudos to you champ.

No no no. Don't read any more into what I said than what I actually wrote. Nobody is perfect, and that includes me. That's why I said I have mixed feelings about him. I also agree with the comments made by T. Erdelyi. My opinion is mine alone, and you don't have to agree with it, but your sarcasm is certainly not appreciated or necessary.

 

[Daniel Moore]

First off, I'm sorry that your father was lost when you were both so young, T. Erdelyi.

As for Christopher Reeve, here's what I believe:

He was an actor, like any other, until nine years ago when he was tossed off of his horse and became paralyzed. At the point, he started to raise public awareness about spinal injuries because they had affected him. It could be seen as selfish because of the fact that he did not speak out about it before the accident, and so for people to call him a "saint" seems a little over the top. But he was raising awareness, and before his accident, he probably wasn't aware either. And if I was an actor, would I be able to fund and support every disease out there that needs curing? Of course not, but when Reeve was paralyzed he knew that his career as he knew it was pretty much gone, so what else was he to do? When many people see him on the news getting loads of recognition they may feel that he's only helping the cause because he is paralyzed, but could we expect any more? It would have been more selfish, or so I believe, if he had done nothing about the issue when he had the power to do it. I can't name many spinal injury celebrities, so this was a tragic yet great opportunity for the disease to be recognized. I hope that makes some sense, but if not, a summary is that I don't think it was selfish of him, but I also don't think it was a completely generous and agenda-free act, because part of human nature is that we're only going to care about something that affects us.

 

[Centaur]

My opinion is mine alone, and you don't have to agree with it, but your sarcasm is certainly not appreciated or necessary.

I appreciate the sarcasm, and I think it was necessary.

What did you expect? You just stomped on a man who died while fighting incredible odds to recover from a devastating and life changing accident. AND he was striving to see to it that Americans of all walks of life can have access to the same medical care and therapies that he was receiving.

I'm sure Mr. Reeve had plenty of charities that he donated to before his accident. Just because he didn't donate to spinal cord injury research at that time is no reason to trash the man.

Do you want to stomp on Michael J. Fox as well? He didn't support Parkinson's research until he was diagnosed. But look at the progress he's enabled with his foundation.

I prefer to give credit where it's due, rather than focus on the motivation of those who generously donate time and money.

 

[Ren the devils trailboss]

I have mixed feelings on him. While I do believe his monetary donations were generous and helpful to a degree, and he showed some backbone (pun intended) in some things he did "post accident", he certainly didn't care enough about the issue to help in any way before it directly affected him...

I did like the first two superman movies, though....

This is the most Hypocritical statement I have ever heard.. He chose to fight instead of fade away...He chose to become a champion for a cause after it affected his life and family while others sat on the sideline (including you) in judgement.

I may not have agreed with his celebrity status but his passion I agreed with..

 

[koj11]

I appreciate the sarcasm, and I think it was necessary.

Well good. I'm glad you appreciate yourself. I appreciate people who can intelligently share their opinions and have a discussion without defensiveness, sarcasm, personal attacks, and being extremely over sensitive. It appears, however, that I'm not going to find that here.

I'm sorry I ever voiced my opinion. God forbid I say something that doesn't agree with someone's delicate sensibilites. Ignore the fact that I said he was generous. Ignore the fact that I said he was helpful. Instead tell me I'm doing something which I did not (Stomp on him? Good lord, your flair for the dramatic is quite, well, dramatic). Maybe I shouldn't have given my opinion so bluntly. Maybe I could have worded it better (like NeedleRemorse, who is basically saying the same thing, though I will admit more eloquently than I did) and then the wolves wouldn't be after me by my lonesome. I mean really, the nerve I must have for actually having not only the opinions I do, but the gall to actually think I have the right to express them!

Get a grip people...

 

[Ren the devils trailboss]

Well good. I'm glad you appreciate yourself. I appreciate people who can intelligently share their opinions and have a discussion without defensiveness, sarcasm, personal attacks, and being extremely over sensitive. It appears, however, that I'm not going to find that here.

I'm sorry I ever voiced my opinion. God forbid I say something that doesn't agree with someone's delicate sensibilites. Ignore the fact that I said he was generous. Ignore the fact that I said he was helpful. Instead tell me I'm doing something which I did not (Stomp on him? Good lord, your flair for the dramatic is quite, well, dramatic). Maybe I shouldn't have given my opinion so bluntly. Maybe I could have worded it better (like NeedleRemorse, who is basically saying the same thing, though I will admit more eloquently than I did) and then the wolves wouldn't be after me by my lonesome. I mean really, the nerve I must have for actually having not only the opinions I do, but the gall to actually think I have the right to express them!

Get a grip people...

and obviously when you get called out for your beliefs the safest thing to do is get angry and defensive. So much for a teachable spirit...your opinion was wrong and people told you that..what did you expect a parade in your honor? a freedom of speech medal? the smart thing to do as a newbie here would have been to just shut up. But now you back pedal and claim that you said he was was generous.. what you actually said was his monetary contributions were generous and helpful to a degree...thats like saying to your wife..well your sort of good looking..Deal wit it dude..you got called out and its no big deal you just :footinmou

 

[Daniel Moore]

Maybe I shouldn't have given my opinion so bluntly. Maybe I could have worded it better (like NeedleRemorse, who is basically saying the same thing, though I will admit more eloquently than I did) and then the wolves wouldn't be after me by my lonesome.

For clarification's sake, if you're faulting him for not helping before the accident, you and I are on a different page.

 

[Centaur]

Well good. I'm glad you appreciate yourself. I appreciate people who can intelligently share their opinions and have a discussion without defensiveness, sarcasm, personal attacks, and being extremely over sensitive. It appears, however, that I'm not going to find that here.

I'm sorry I ever voiced my opinion. God forbid I say something that doesn't agree with someone's delicate sensibilites. Ignore the fact that I said he was generous. Ignore the fact that I said he was helpful. Instead tell me I'm doing something which I did not (Stomp on him? Good lord, your flair for the dramatic is quite, well, dramatic). Maybe I shouldn't have given my opinion so bluntly. Maybe I could have worded it better (like NeedleRemorse, who is basically saying the same thing, though I will admit more eloquently than I did) and then the wolves wouldn't be after me by my lonesome. I mean really, the nerve I must have for actually having not only the opinions I do, but the gall to actually think I have the right to express them!

Get a grip people...

You certainly have the right to express your opinion. However, toss out your opinion on an open forum, and you take your chances. You posted a callous statement, and labeled it as you opinion. Then you're whining when people react to what you expressed. I think you are the one that needs to get a grip.

You may feel I have a flair for the dramatic. Maybe so. But you DID stomp on him:

"he certainly didn't care enough about the issue to help in any way before it directly affected him..."

That, Sir, is a cold and unfeeling statement to make about ANY human being. How many people that you know of that do not care about those whith spinal cord injuries?

By the way, NeedleRemorse expressed himself in a completely different manner:

"It could be seen as selfish because of the fact that he did not speak out about it before the accident, and so for people to call him a "saint" seems a little over the top. But he was raising awareness, and before his accident, he probably wasn't aware either. "

All he said was that calling Mr. Reeve a Saint seems a little over the top. He never said his opinion was that Mr. Reeve's actions before the accident were selfish, only that some could view them as such. But he goes on to say:

"And if I was an actor, would I be able to fund and support every disease out there that needs curing? Of course not..."

Well said. I don't know it for a fact, but I'm sure Mr. Reeve was gennerous to many charities. But someone who has limited funds cannot donate to everything.

Personally, I would use the tern "Heroic" rather than "Saint-like."

 

[Ken C.]

Personally, I would use the tern "Heroic" rather than "Saint-like."

I think just "human" would suffice. People have a tend to use the term "hero" too loosely lately.

 

[Centaur]

People have a tend to use the term "hero" too loosely lately.

Good point. The word can be over used in many cases, and not used often enough where it should be.

 

[Ren the devils trailboss]

I agree..my favorite use of the word hero was shortly after 9/11 ( couple of months) We were buying a new color TV and the clown at Circuit city thanked us for showing "Economic Heroism" I almost pummeled him ....

 

[Daniel Moore]

I agree..my favorite use of the word hero was shortly after 9/11 ( couple of months) We were buying a new color TV and the clown at Circuit city thanked us for showing "Economic Heroism" I almost pummeled him ....

Running into a burning building in an attempt to save lives and subsequently sorting through the wreckage to find survivors is pretty much the same as buying an enetertainment electronic, tomato-tomoto :barf:

 

[Daniel Moore]

Waylander posted his "Reader's digest version" in another thread, here's what he said about Chris Reeve, I agree with this logic whole-heartedly.

Second, About Chris Reeves, I've condensed the lil' debate's question to, "Did it matter that he became an advocate only because it affected him?". Again, I digress to my own experience:

As noted above, I married my wife four years ago. Like most families these days, this family came "ready-made". My wife had three children by her first husband, ages 9, 12, & 15. The 15-year-old was born with Cystic Fibrosis, a terminal disease. I'd never heard of it before, but it was made clear to me that getting into this love affair with my wife-to-be included the fact that I'd be dealing with a step-daughter with a life expectancy of about 30. (She has a milder case than many). It's the same daughter mentioned above, now twenty, that gave birth to my step-granddaughter recently.

Did I pay any attention to terminal diseases of any kind before? Nope. Closest I got to paying any mind of any kind to that was having condoms on hand. Have I paid attention since? H*ll Yeah. Just like Reeve's donations/foundation for spinal research, a famous football player named "Boomer" Esiason had a son born with Cystic Fibrosis some years ago. As luck has it, he is from Cincinnati, Ohio, as are we. And thanks to him, Cincinnati has the biggest, best funded, most scientifically advanced Cystic Fibrosis Research/Treatment Center in the WORLD. If not for the luck of location, my wife could never have afforded treatment of the caliber her daughter has recieved, who might not even still be alive otherwise.

Does it smack of pretentiousness to you that somebody that is directly affected by something tries to do something about it "after the fact"? I politely say, "Get over it." It takes a wake-up call to get 99% of things started. "Neccessity is the mother of invention", right? Once upon a time, some cro-magnon was dragging a 500-pound elk up a rocky incline, and in his dim brain, an idea emerged, "what if this animal were in smaller parts?", and he eyed a sharp stone that had just nicked his toe... (obligatory knife-content.)

 

[TorzJohnson]

koj11, I don't think you're callous or cold hearted, just stupid. According to your logic, the only way he could avoid being a shitheel would be to predict the future and support spinal cord injury programs before he got one himself, or just not do anything at all. I hate to think of all the money he probably wasted donating to other charities for injuries/diseases he didn't actually end up with.

It was a stupid thing to say, and you know it.

 

[jsmatos]

I think Koj11 ignores the difficult challenges that Mr. Reeve encountered in order to make his contribution to curing spinal injuries. Does Koj11 realize how difficult it was for Mr. Reeve to pull himself together before each and every one of his public appearances? Did Koj11 ever sit back and imagine what Mr. Reeve's life was really like behind the scenes? Christopher Reeve suffered from one of the worst physical injuries imaginable. The world would have understood if he decided to hide quietly within the confines of his home never to be heard from again. But he didn't. The man put a name and face on a problem affecting many others who could never bring such widespread attention to the cause. He selflessly lead out his days offering himself as a centerpiece for it. Does Koj11 actually believe that it was easy for Mr. Reeve to see pictures of himself all over the television in his deteriorating state? It would have been so much easier for him to ignore it all. He shared his, very small, successes with the media which, I'm sure, worked as a great inspiration to others suffering from spinal injuries. And most importantly, the gentleman dealt with his problems with an amazing dignity that made him much closer to a real life Superman than he ever was on the silver screen. Think about the man you saw in the media in the last several years and compare that with a real image of what he must have dealt with on a day to day basis, and if you still lack the ability to appreciate Mr. Reeve's, very human, beauty and strength than I'd say you're emotions are impenetrable.

My prayers are with Mr. Reeve as he flies to the heavens (for real this time) and his amazing wife and children who are every bit as impressive as their beloved.

Oh, and I forgot...Now he's whole again.

 

[johnniet]

I hate to think of all the money he probably wasted donating to other charities for injuries/diseases he didn't actually end up with.

I'm glad someone else has already said it! I don't know his whole life record, but a lot of people do lots of good work in their lives that doesn't end up benefitting them directly.
For all I know he gave 50% of his income to Oxfam until he got paralyzed. Once he was paralyzed, he set a goal of being able to walk again while he was alive. If you're paralyzed, and you think it's possible that you could be cured, does it really make sense to focus on anything else? "Meet Chrisopher Reeve...he's paralyzed, but he's appearing on behalf of cheaper protease inhibitors for Africa!" Lots of people work on lots of causes, but he was in a unique position to help a particular group of people, and he took the opportunity and made the best of it.
He also helped to advance research by studies that he participated in as a patient.
This also taught a lot of people (e.g. me) that it can be worth fighting on, even when people give you terrible odds. He didn't live long enough to walk again--but some other people will, thanks to work that he helped to fund and volunteered for as a guinea pig.