Surely that's not an infraction

G

gnius

Joined
Jul 1, 2008
Messages
413
I received a 30-point infraction from Bastid, regarding the following situation:

Esav had a disagreement with an obvious troll, who posted an image of a military unit from a "Total War" game, titled "Judean Slingers" (not sure if it's real or made-up).

My reply was:
"Maybe I'm a 12-year old, but I found that retort to be hilarious."

Where, may I ask, is the "Racism / Bigotry / etc"

It was funny, because I presume that Esav is Jewish... doubly so, because being Jewish myself, I thought it was a clever retort, even despite its poor taste and antisemitic overtones... and I've faced real, VIOLENT anti-semitism myself.

The original post may have been in bad taste, but surely my comment was not racist in any way. I certainly wasn't offended by the original image. If my comment on the offensive image offended Esav, I only shake my head. I'm not nearly that P/C.

I've been contributing on this for a little while and found it to be a nice community. I would like to resolve this misunderstanding, because frankly I was taken aback by getting an infraction for this... in Whine and Cheese no less. Perhaps the mods were angered by the original troll, but I seem to have been tagged for commenting on a comment. With all due respect, if I couldn't laugh at a clever insult, I never would've made it out of Russia alive.
 
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1.) Esav didn't give you the infraction.

2.) While most others were condemning the original offensive comment, you felt the need to minimize and defend it.

The exact wording of the infraction might not fit your offence to a "T", but it's good enough for me.


And don't call us Shirley... :p
 
You admit his post was in poor taste and had antisematic overtones and you thought it was funny. (or rather hilarious).

Sorry, if we allow your post to go uninfracted take a second and think of the door that has been opened.

And yes I have also dealt with racists in my life. My father's two business were burned to the ground when I was 5 on the same night. The following morning a car he had just purchased "blew up" in our driveway. All in thanks to the KKK and Albert Gore Senior, becuase of my father's hiring practices and his refusal to conform to "local seating arrangements".

The owner of this site may feel differently. I sat and thought about the infractions before I issued them. I reached a decision that to allow your post would not set a good precedent for this site or this community. That was my reasoning for the infraction. I fail to see any humor at all in a post that in your words contained "poor taste and antisemitic overtones" and I have little respect for anyone else that does see humor in those types of posts. I had a room mate whose family was from Russia and happened to be Jewish years ago. We are still close friends. I am sure he would not have found the post funny at all.

As far as the P/C part of your defense. I am by no means P/C, but support of antisemitic post does not fall into anti P/C in my book. Nor does the W&C excuse.

Answer one question. If we allow your type of defense to the actual post that was made what does the future of BFC hold. Should we actually condone the "hilarity of racist comments" by turning our back?
My answer to that question was NO and that is why the infractions were issued. Right or wrong that was my only reasoning.
 
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Bastid said:
Answer one question. If we allow your type of defense to the actual post that was made what does the future of BFC hold.
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The problem is that I was neither "defending" the post in question nor condoning the behavior of the offending poster. I even noted that the humor was immature.

I firmly believe that one can comment on something inflammatory, and even laugh about it, without approving of it. Irony is a great tool to deal with complex and inflammatory issues.

Case in point: the Israeli "anti-semitic cartoon contest" which aimed to ridicule the Iranian response to the Dutch "Mohammad" cartoon controversy. These comics were made by Jews, for Jews to laugh at. Are you going to claim that these are also approving of bigotry and racism?

I had no knowledge of the prior history of the offending poster, and in my judgment the post in isolation did not cross the line from poor taste into frank anti-Semitism. Certainly, it's your prerogative to judge the parent post as you please, especially given the apparent previous infractions committed by the member, but that does not have anything to do with me.

In the light of my own experiences, I find it extremely insulting to be labeled a racistm, which is why I brought up this issue. Furthermore I do not appreciate being called a "dumbass" given that at no point did I address you in an un-civilized manner, or express anything but respect for you, Esav, any other board moderators, as well as other members of the message board.
 
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So in summay when someone makes a post in poor taste with antisemitic overtones you think it is OK to allow others to say the post is hilarious.

Sorry, I feel quite differently.
 
gnius said:
Obviously, since you wield the big stick here, you will do what you deem necessary. In my judgment I didn't find the isolated post particularly offensive at the time. Obviously you disagree... but frankly I'd rather you made another infraction category, such as "saying something a moderator didn't like" because that title bothers me a lot more than the infraction itself.

I just wish that you had actually read what I'd written. Otherwise, what's the point of having a discussion...
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I was infracted on the basis of bigotry too, after posting a picture of an Orangutan wearing a rastafarian coloured beret.

No matter what the intent, others will always see the 'other' meaning.
 
The rule regarding this is quite clear on the Blade Forums FAQs:

Racism / Bigotry / etc

Keep it off our site. Period.
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There is not much room for interpretation at all there.
It does not allow for the use of Irony.

It states "Keep it off our site. Period." That means also keeping any support of a statement that fits the category also.
 
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What one infers in a message may not be what the sender intended.
 
mossyhorn said:
What one infers in a message may not be what the sender intended.
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That may be the case here, but since I nor the other mods have the ability to read minds what one infers should steer away from the cut and clear stated rule here.

Racism / Bigotry / etc

Keep it off our site. Period.
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That rule should not be that hard to follow for reasonable people. It is not a rule open to interpretation. Bottom line is on this site you are safe if you do not put your toe on the line so to speak since the line does not move.
 
I will disclaim that I am only replying because I find this an interesting discussion.
Bastid said:
That rule should not be that hard to follow for reasonable people.
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Evidently not. When viewed in its original context, I not only didn't find the original post offensive, I could not even fathom that commenting ironically on it would be... and there isn't a single person I know who would describe me as unreasonable or lacking in insight... including people who don't like me.

Only in retrospect did I learn the history of the parent post, which put it in perspective... which explains the ban that user received.

Bastid said:
Bottom line is on this site you are safe if you do not put your toe on the line so to speak since the line does not move.
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Regardless of the infraction I received, I have to say that I find your comments rather ironic in the light of the torrent of rants regarding the unfortunate victims of "zero-tolerance" policies that can be found on this site. I have to say that it is a valuable lesson in understanding how an honor student can get expelled, and shipped to a reform school, for bringing in a tool to cut a cake... or how a 16-year old can have his life utterly ruined by being convicted of possession of child pornography, because his 15-year-old girlfriend sent him a nude picture.

Not that I am saying that getting "infraction points" on a website is in any way comparable to those tragic examples, but I think I can better understand the psychology involved.
 
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The owner of this site has established rules. You are a guest on this site as am I.
One of my tasks here is to do what I can to keep racist comments off this site.
A "reasonable" person would be able to understand what would build if we did allow.racist comments to remain here.

If you choose to ignore the rules that are quite clear, it is your choice to do so, but to sit back and defend your actions is not reasonable.

The rule is clear.
You stated the retort was in poor taste and had antisemitic overtones. You posted that it was hilarious.

You defend that by telling me to read what you posted and that your post was in irony as if I did not read it and as if I could read your mind to understand your intention.

And you post now that you are reasonable?

Hows this for reasonable. Obey the clear cut rules here and you will not get infracted.
Ignore them the rules and you just might obtain an infraction.

Explain to me how "a reasonable person" interprets the rule. - "Racism / Bigotry / etc

Keep it off our site. Period." A reasonable person indeed would understand that racial irony is not welcome here.
 
I don't know, Gus. What he wrote contained ZERO racist or bigoted language. He merely pointed to an instance of it. Slippery slope and all that.
 
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