surprising Perrin Street Beat grind

S

starboard

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Apr 28, 2007
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This sweet little blade just came in today; excellent grip ergonomics, very sharp out of the box, obviously a superlative CCW blade. The one thing that puzzled me was the obvious asymmetry insofar as how far the edge extends toward the choil on either side and the resulting geometry of the grind -- one side is flat and the other is quite rounded and concave.

This is a crappy photo, but it shows what I mean to some extent. Mind you, I saw another photo of the Street Beat in a similar orientation showing a similar profile.

Why are they ground like this and not symmetrically?

If I were a Japanese craftsman (and the Street Beat seems to be made in Seki), I might introduce an intentional imperfection into the piece, for aesthetic/philosophical reasons, i.e.:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wabi_sabi
http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?WabiSabi

But given that this is made for an American client, it seems an unlikely consideration.

I personally like the way it looks just fine, and will take the asymmetry in an otherwise perfectly executed object as a reminder of the imperfection of humans and human endeavors, but I do wonder...

luy014evxz7dxo5vy0r9.jpg
 
starboard said:
This sweet little blade just came in today; excellent grip ergonomics, very sharp out of the box, obviously a superlative CCW blade. The one thing that puzzled me was the obvious asymmetry insofar as how far the edge extends toward the choil on either side and the resulting geometry of the grind -- one side is flat and the other is quite rounded and concave.

This is a crappy photo, but it shows what I mean to some extent. Mind you, I saw another photo of the Street Beat in a similar orientation showing a similar profile.

Why are they ground like this and not symmetrically?

If I were a Japanese craftsman (and the Street Beat seems to be made in Seki), I might introduce an intentional imperfection into the piece, for aesthetic/philosophical reasons, i.e.:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wabi_sabi
http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?WabiSabi

But given that this is made for an American client, it seems an unlikely consideration.

I personally like the way it looks just fine, and will take the asymmetry in an otherwise perfectly executed object as a reminder of the imperfection of humans and human endeavors, but I do wonder...

luy014evxz7dxo5vy0r9.jpg
Click to expand...

I can't answer your question, unfortunately, but like you, I too find this surprising and interesting...I'm looking forward to other responses. ;)

Ray :)
 
Thanks for the wabi sabi links, a concept I was unaware of. I just put a deep scratch in one of my blades today while sharpening. I was very upset at first, but I now know I was practicing wabi sabi!
 
Unfortunately, I do have to wonder if it is an aesthetic choice.

I've had 2 Caly 3's, which are also made in Seki, Japan. The grind on the first was also a-symmetrical:

img5374vf7.jpg


Spyderco replaced that Caly 3, but the customer service rep I dealt with said they were replacing the knife due to a defect in tolerances in the lock, not the blade.

img5370rn3.jpg


It is unfortunate, but I got the impression from their customer service rep that this is within Spyderco's quality control standards.

The grind on my current Caly 3 is much better, but still a-symmetrical.
 
IMO your guys are perfectionists.

Does it is anyway impact on the knifes function? My guess is no. You guys want perfection for $100 or so? That's just not realistic.
 
I was contemplating smoothing the right angles around the choil anyway (gotta love that Dremel pen attachment) so I may as well personalize it by shaping that whole area by hand.

The sheath should have two holes drilled on the edge side, such that the blade can be carried an inch higher in the SOB position. I'm thinking to locate the TekLok around the midpoint of the edge length-wise, so as not to make the sheath too grabby, and this would provide a slight tip-down cant from horizontal for better retention.

I also got a couple Subclaws with this order and said to the wife, "Look, honey, one of these handy little Subclaws is for you!" To which she replied, and I quote, "What? More knives? You should have gotten me a Sub-purse!"
 
As far as work slopiness, I wonder.. everything else is done to a fine tolerance. And I wonder if CNC is involved in taking that grind on a production line. FWIW, the two Caly 3's I've had were perfectly even, and so's my (Seki) Endura.

Anyhow, I'll post up a pic of the Dremel grind and polish aftermath.
 
I have several knives with grinds like that. Perfectly functional. Then again, none of them were even close to costing the $150 or so the Street Beat costs. Hand ground or not, I can understand being a little disappointed.

Does it is anyway impact on the knifes function? My guess is no. You guys want perfection for $100 or so? That's just not realistic.
Click to expand...

I've seen sub $10 Chinese knives that offered better symmetry. Being used to SAKs, Marttiinis and other inexpensive knives raises the bar considerably.
 
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To conclude the Street Beat story, I went at it with a Dremel "flexible wand" using very fine abrasives, mostly with an eye to smoothing the whole choil area for index finger comfort and paying some attention to evening out the grind. An hour later, the end result is the sides are almost even, very smooth and comfortable with no sharp corner in sight. The only cosmetic downside is some places the satin finish turned into a mirror shine, but this knife is going to be a user so that's no big deal. This procedure didn't make it any more loose in, or notably easier to draw from, the sheath, so happily no retention issues arose. Sheathing is a smoother action though.

All in all I'm glad the semiauto feed ramp polishing technique carried over nicely to the knife, resulting in a more comfy user than I suspect the best Street Beat exemplar to leave the factory. I really dig the design of the knife, though. It may possibly displace the EKI karambit as my favorite carry knife where laws recognize a CCW and/or allow concealed fixed blade carry.
 
DaveH said:
IMO your guys are perfectionists.

Does it is anyway impact on the knifes function? My guess is no. You guys want perfection for $100 or so? That's just not realistic.
Click to expand...

Comparing the two Caly 3's I've had with each of the 4 Mini Griptilians I have ($60.00 ea, Ritter Mini Grip was $100.00), I noticed a lot more imperfections on the each of the Caly 3 knives.

Comparing strictly G10 handled knives to the Caly 3, both the Lone Wolf T1 I had ($90.00), and the HK 14210 ($100.00) had a higher fit and finish, with zero noticeable imperfections and perfectly symmetrical grinds.

So sure, it's realistic. Will it affect the knife's performance? Probably not. I've been carrying the Caly 3 since I got the replacement one back from Spyderco.

Are there knives out there with better fit and finish, maybe even better blade steel, at the same price? You bet! They just don't have Spyderco's ergonomics and feel to them.
 
Thanx for the input. That is not normal. Mine is even. Thanx for fixin' it, sorry you had to go through that.

I meet with the maker nerxt week. I'll put it on the agenda.

This particular maker does most of their work by hand.

sal
 
It was a terrible, terrible ordeal. The only way I might begin to recover emotionally is if I can *cough* get onto the Mule Team list. I thought I was on the list from early on, but I missed the first one somehow...
 
I realize I'm resurrecting an old thread, but I just took delivery of a new Street Beat via thespydercostore.com . It is my first Spyderco and I paid around 160 bucks for it shipped. When I looked it over, I also have an asymmetric grind where the blade edge meets the finger choil. When I look at the actual grinds on both sides, they're also uneven. I am dismayed because...well it's a 160 dollar knife that has an MSRP of 254.95 according to spyderco.com . I have had cheaper knives with better grinds and full expected to get what I paid for...which was at the very least even grind lines. I mean my Griptilian has even grind lines and it cost a fraction of it. My Izula also has perfect grind lines.

According to Sal's reply, this is not supposed to be the case, but it's 2010, well over a year since this thread was started and mine still has bad grind lines. I like everything else about the knife, but the grind line, and at this point, I'm not sure if I want to return to thespydercostore.com because they require a 10% restocking fee for returns. I don't want to exchange for another one from them because...well frankly I'd have to have the luck of the draw to get one with better grinds. And who knows? I might get one with even worse grind lines.

I was hoping Sal would chime in and see what options I have. I like this knife, but I want to love this knife since I paid...more than some other knives and those other knives have better fit and finish.

I do not think I am being harsh on this since Sal did mention the grinds were supposed to be better. Also, 160 bucks is not cheap for a knife. Granted I have knives that cost over 250, but still...at a certain point you kind of start expecting better fit and finish.
 
When you flat grind a blade its very hard to keep both sides even because of the physics of grinding metal. If done by a machine it should be perfect though or at least the first few until the grinding bit starts to wear.
 
knifenut1013 said:
When you flat grind a blade its very hard to keep both sides even because of the physics of grinding metal. If done by a machine it should be perfect though or at least the first few until the grinding bit starts to wear.
Click to expand...

It looks to have been ground by machine, but the choil area looks like one of the above pictures. The actual edge grind is different on both sides as well...some "thicker" edges." Not sure what the knife terminology is, but on one side it's consistently thick; I guess that means the edge angle is very acute? On the other side it ranges from that thickness to about half, sort of like a wave. Not sure if you understand what I'm trying to convey, but it's uneven as well.

EDIT: And as an American, I refuse to buy into that wabi sabi mentality. I didn't buy a wabi sabi knife. :P
 
The original pic in this thread is gone. I don't understand what the problem is. If it's a unevenness visible at the base of the grind, that's not uncommon and not something I'd worry about.
In my experience, this Seki maker (Moki I think) who marks their knives "Japan" is the better one that Spyderco uses.
 
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