Survival: How much of the hardware determine your chances of coming out alive?

golok

golok

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Oct 20, 2000
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The debate is survival skills versus survival gear.

Say, if a person is below average with regard to knowledge on the art of survival but he has some top-notch survival gear at his disposal, what are his chances of surviving in a hostile environment compared to a person who is well trained in the art of survival but he only has a SAK?

If you pit those two individuals, who would you bet on?

Modern survival gear is one thing, knowledge is quite another. Sometimes, you may not have the option of the combination of both.

Which would you prefer: the skills or the gear?
 
Golok,

Good point. Definitely Knowledge and skills above all else will see you through. I would definitely bet on the guy with knowledge. You can have the greatest gear on the planet, if you lose your head or don't know what to do, you can have all the greatest gear in the world and it will help you squat. With the right knowledge and skills, however, one can improvise virtually every piece of gear.

Both is better of course.
 
This is true to a point, but if you have two people with equal know how but one has top notch gear and one has the cheapest stuff he could find i would bet on the guy with better gear, it doesnt matter if you know how to use it or not if it breaks on you. Thats why i buy high quality custom knives, so that i can trust them to see me out of ANY situation.
 
I agree with knowledge and skills but I also think that they're 2 separate entities. Someone can read all the books, watch the videos and quote the teachers but they may not be able to apply the skills. That takes practice. I've seen people with a complete survival CD set and say they're going to bring they're laptop into a survival situation - you have to laugh because if it's a truly bad situation then there may not be any electric or EMP's will ruin the computer or they drop it, lose it, etc. and then they have nothing because they didn't take the time to practice the skills.

Good equipment helps, though!
 
OK - let's quantify this. If the skills are rated on a scale of 1 to 10 - how does the mix shake out?

I would say that a minimal level of skill is needed to use any equipment - let's say a skill level of 3. Up to that point, no equipment will do much good.

At an average skill level (4 to 6) the better equipment would make the chances of survival better.

At an advanced level (7+) the better equipment will not make the chances of survival much better - just easier and more comfortable.
 
In extremes gear can handle any amount of skill or knowledge. Take the most informed survivalist and stick them out naked in -50 and below and see how long it takes for them to die. Not very long. Frostbite will set in pretty much instantly on all exposed skin areas (it happens quickly enough at -30).

Of course you walk around in cold weather gear and suddenly go over your head in snow without knowing what to do and you are just as dead. So extreme ignorance can kill you just as easily. Even something simple like adding fuel to a fire can do you in if you don't know how much flame will be produced and get hit with a sudden flare up.

It is also not a really fair question as knowledge includes the preperation stage. Knowing your enviroment is a fairly critical element. Davenports book "Wilderness Survival" covers this well. The point about knowing how something is done, and actually being able to do it can't be said strongly enough either, get out there and put them into practice.

-Cliff
 
I'd always bet on the person with mental skills acquired through experience.

Research and reading are useful in that you learn what questions to ask, training is a little more useful. But nothing beats experience.

Here's the moral of the story: turn off the computer, put down the book, feed the cat, put some stuff in your pack, and find some wild country.

Spend the weekend outside.

db
 
It is the experience that brings a certain level of confidence in ones self, environment, and gear. So it is a combination of factors that make survival possible.

Sometimes I think back to what little I've read on American POW's in the Hanoi Hilton prison camp. No equipment there-it was the mental attitude that brought the survivors out. There may also be a something to be said that some men\women have an instinctive desire to survive that is stronger than others. But you won't know it until you are there I guess. I honestly can't say for sure whether I have it to that degree or not (I guess I should thank God that I haven't been tested at that level).

Back to topic...

I like what Dave said though, I have forgotten most of the skills I had aquired as a younger man through wilderness type basic camping and woods humping. He's right I should get off my duff (and this keyboard) and get the heck outside more often. Funny thing is I have so much more, and better equipment than I ever had, only it has less than half the mileage of the old stuff....go figure.

Interesting thread BTW....

:)

Mongrel

ps-was I babbling just now? geez I hope not.... :rolleyes:
 
i can remember readong on here ages ago a comment where someone was talking about military knives, asking what your american special forces used and then it went on to ask about the SAS, someone made the comment that the SAS arent too up on knives. this is because the key to survival is knowledge and the worlds most elite survival / fighting force knows this well thats why theres the worlds best. they train to survive with nothing, even a knife to them is a bonus. you dont know when your going to be put in a survival situation, most of us carry a knife whenever we can so if we ever needed it its likely to be there but by definition survival situations appear out of hte blue theres a chance you wouldnt have a knive or anything else. The key to survival is knowledge you can do everything you need to survive with knowledge and the natural materials in whatever situation you find yourself in. there are a very few situations however where the equipment makes all the difference (mainly polar regions, desert and ocean) but the rest of the world, knowledge is the key and even in these more inhosipitable regions having the equipment without the knowledge is almost as bad as having the knowledge without the equipment, thats why my moneys on the guy with the know how in 98% of cases
 
i think that survival boils down to one thing, the amount of energy that you expend must be less than the energy you gain from the work of survival. if you try for 4 hours to build a fire, you will use a lot of energy, compared to the guy that gets his fire going in 10 minutes. if you spend 10 days chasing a deer, you will have expended mor energy than the guy who gets his meal from a rabbit snare. the gear we talk about helps tip the energy equation. it makes the work of survival more efficient. a magnesium fire starter will get you a fire faster than i could do it with a bow and drill. yea i have started fires this way, but the mag block and sparker will make me more efficient, assuming that i know how to lay a fire correctly. that is where the knowledge comes in. the practical experience of how to lay the fire to make it stat, how to prepare the tinder and small wood.

i teach my kids that in the back yard. in the middle of winter with the temperature below 20 degrees give them a doan tool they know how to get the tinder, pick up the sqaw wood, lay a fire they will be warm. you dont need to go to the rocky mountains to practice. i pick one skill and do it in the evenings once a week or so at home in the back yard. the kids like it and i feel i have taught them something they will carry forever, and may save their life. its like teaching them to swim.

alex
 
I would vote for the guy with the know how.

For a GREAT book on this pick up:
Robert A. Heinlein's Tunnel in the Sky.
(Great book! :) )

;)
 
Will.

I say that things without the knowhow to use them are of little use. Skill is of little use if you don't really want to survive -- and believe me, the numbers really indicate lots of people don't when the going gets tough.

That said, the more skill you have, the less equipment you need. The "touch" course run by the Swedish Surival Guild only lets you bring your clothes, a change of underwear and one match per person (so the group has up to a dozen to be used over 5 days or so).
 
Originally posted by DanielL
OK - let's quantify this. If the skills are rated on a scale of 1 to 10 - how does the mix shake out?
snip scale....
Click to expand...

I'll agree with your scale totally - if we discount good/bad luck

I'll add this however - there can be situations where the basics on gear make you able to survive - however, I'd say that anyone who is at/above a 5 on your scale probably has that basic gear on them - for instance your SAK

I'll also rate gear on the same kind of 1-10 scale. I drop a say, 10 scale person with NOTHING (including clothes) 10 miles in the woods, with a blizard, and drop a 3 in the woods with good clothes/gear, I'll bet on the gear (Notice I'm saying the person isn't a one)

That said, I'd rather be the 10, because I wouldn't be caught out with nothing
 
Training? Hardware?

Neither......It's the determination to survive. A young (21) college gal went off the beaten path about a year ago here in the midwest. It was a major highway. Her legs were crushed between the dashboard and the floor, and she landed in a slow moving creek. Good news: Water. Bad news: Hypothermia. They found her 3-4 days later. She was alive.

After the inevitable questioning of "How did you do it?" was over, the simple response was......."I refused to give up"

I think that sometimes, we over-simplify. Tools......Training.......

They're both good, but what do you really have inside you? Can I survive? Can you survive?......

I hope I never find out.
 
Originally posted by farmboy
They're both good, but what do you really have inside you? Can I survive? Can you survive?......
I hope I never find out.
Click to expand...

Here is one of my favorite quotes:
"Survivors Survive" Robert A. Heinlein (Farmer in the Sky).
Survivors survive it's the only test that counts.:(

Stay safe:)
 
Interesting question but I believe it depends on the situation. I'd rather be a little less skilled but have a working lighter, GPS and sat phone than an expert left in the wilderness with only a pocket knife!
 
lots of excellent points made above!

1. Will

2. Skill

3. Gear

The will not to give up is paramount!
 
phwl - good point. A working cell phone beats the best knife that money can buy.

While we are talking about good, better and best equipment - what are some examples of marginal equipment versus the best available. Clothing is rather obvious. Good wicking material versus cotton is substantially better. But what about hardware? Can you give some examples?

Also, which hardware items are really worth the extra cost? When is it vital to spend the extra money on the best equipment?
 
I vote for the guy with the knowledge over the guy with the gear.

It's the same difference between a well equipped Private, fresh outta Basic Training, and a sparsely equipped veteran Sergeant.
I'll bet on the "old Soldier" everytime.

Good luck,
Allen.
 
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