survival knife

Looks like a great piece. Ray Mears seems to really know his stuff, a knife designed by him is probably well thought out. Any US suppliers of this knife?
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by UK ex PARA:
Guys
Does anyone know about a survival knife made by wilkinsons of England.thanks</font>
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Mr Blackadder thats the knife, have you any information on it, like is it worth the money
 
***TAKE THIS GRAIN OF SALT FIRST: These are my thoughts/concerns having only seen this knife from the pic provided!!

Keenedge stainless steel: ???? What the hell is that?

RC54/55: Good for chopping. Not oo hot for edge holding. Probably a good overall RC for a "survival" knife, I guess

I think the bottle opener gets in the way of the utility of the knife. You could use the spine edge of the knfie to pop off bottle caps if needed, and the spot where the bottle opener is is the spot I'd like to beat on with a log if I were to use the knife to split wood.

The grind doesn't go all that high on the blade. This is great for a chopper. After a few sharpenings the slicing performance likely will drop off. This style of grind is on most khukuris, and works well for the chopping roll, as already stated.

The handle is canted, which makes for a more efficient chop. Outstanding!!

The handle material I don't know about. I don't know what nylon 66 is at all, but I have heard of other knife makers using nylon (I don't know what type) for handle material successfully. When it says that the handle material is reversible, I don't know what that means at all though. I think the writer meant that you could turn the knife upside down and the handle will still be comfortable.

The handle is a "hollwo handle" type. I don't know how it is constructed, but always be weary about hollow handled survival knives. The hollow is usually, though not always, a point of weakness. Chris Reeve makes a hollow handled survival knife, but it is machined out of a solid bar of A2 steel. His hollow handled knife is definitely tough. Check the construction of this style before buying.

Single guard is great for utility. It protects your hand but makes the back of the knife accessible. Double guards get in the way on utility knives.

Those are my thoughts for now on this knife. Liek I said, TAKE THIS WITH A GRAIN OF SALT, as I have not handled this knife at all.

If you are looking for a knife, you could tell us what you want to do with your knife and your price range and we could offer some suggestions to you. if you really like that knife, I;d suggest finding out how the hollow is constructed, and what the heck Keenedge steel is.

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"Come What May..."
 
Hollow-handle knives are kind of neat, but not something I've ever taken seriously. It's too easy to lash a pouch to the sheath of a fixed blade knife and get MORE survival gear, while having a much stronger knife in the bargain. The Wilkinson Sword knife has way too many edge options on one blade. Plus, that's a pretty shallow looking grind. I doubt it would slice well at all. Plus, if you look closely at the pictures in the link above, you'll see that 4 of the top saw teeth are busted off, and this is a demo model, brand new in the box! And the handle looks absolutely HUGE; that's a 7 inch blade, though it's hard to tell, comparing it to the handle. You'd need some mighty big hands to use that knife comfortably.

And the Aitor, while one of the better hollow handle designs, is still pretty weak compared to a conventional knife, and the handle is round. Seems like it would be hard to hold onto. The only really *neat* feature on the Aitor is the wrist rocket attachment. It might be handy in some conditions, but considering how quickly surgical tubing rots, you'd be constantly replacing the bands, whether you used them or not.

I think I'll stick to my Campanion and sheath pouch. Cheaper (WAY cheaper than the Wilkinson), stronger, and more versatile.
 
I've never handled this knife. I just poked around a bit online to find the site I posted.

My impression is that there are too many unknowns about the materials and design. Too many good blades around for much less for me to consider it. Also, seems to be made by a company that mostly makes blades for show not to "go".
 
I have one of these (somewhere), though I haven't played with it recently. The knife has a nice heavy feel too it. The handle slides over a square tang frame and is held in place by the rear nut. Although I haven't tried it, we should be able to reverse the handle and mount it upside down, so that the edge faces up.

 
If I remember correctly Tactical Knives had an article not real long ago on that blade and did not seem to rate its cutting ability very highly. I would also check Wilkinson's warranty.For that kind of money you could get a lot of tough cutters, even a Busse with probably the best warranty in the business.
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by tknife:
Looks like a great piece.</font>
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I think "looks" is the operative word here.
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Ray Mears seems to really know his stuff, a knife designed by him is probably well thought out.</font>
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I'd say it looks like it's based on outdated principles and not all that suitable at most times.
<a href="http://www.raymears.com/kit/kit11.html">This</a> is probably a design by him which is more useful.
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Any US suppliers of this knife?</font>
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I think it's out of production since last year or the year before that.
<img src="http://www.canit.se/%7Egriffon/knives/.1x1knives.gif" alt="" height=0 width=0>

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Urban Fredriksson www.canit.se/%7Egriffon/
 
Just my opinion:
- For about that price (~$250) you can get the best outdoor knives, custom pieces included, on the market (Busse, CRK, Newt Livesay, Simonich, Rinaldi), all with VERY solid reputation.
- Cut out tang is inherently VERY weak compared to blade.
- If you lose/brake scales you won't be able to grip knife effectively and field improvising these type of scales might not be trivial task.
- Pounding on the butt seems to be impossible with that peculiar screw cap. (BTW, I never liked screwed-on butt caps since one failed badly on me.)
- Bottle opener on blade is useless and a weak spot IMHO.
- This sabre grind combined with unfamiliar shiny steel alloy and low RC hardness seems to promise lotsa sharpening time.
- Why do you want to use your knife for storage when you can get sheaths with easy-to-use pouch from Normark? Real good hollow handles (CRK) boost the production price. IMO, knife is for cutting, pouches are for storage.
Probably the only thing I like on it is the guard.

My ideal knife:
- INFI or VG-10 steel. Or just simple 1095.
- Full tang design with screwed-on slabs that one can replace quickly even with two wood pieces or rubber tubing, paracord, strip of leather.
- Integral single guard and index finger groove. Eagle head shaped butt for good retention upon cjopping.
- Naked blade without slabs should be still sufficient for use in case of emergency (rounded edges on handle and ergonomic tang).
- I would go for simple drop point blade with flat grind but take your favorite size and grind.
- Sheath with pouch for ferrocerium, diamond sharpener and whatever kept in tang (bottle opener included if you wish
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.

For general construction see the sheath knife at http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum19/HTML/000474.html

Look around and try to handle different blades if possible to see what you like and need. Also, read older posts on the forum about various knives.

HM

PS: I believe that Greenjacket wrote earlier that he broke two of the Wilkinsons.
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by UK ex PARA:
Guys
Does anyone know about a survival knife made by wilkinsons of England.thanks</font>
Click to expand...
Guys Thanks very much for your thoughts have givin me much to think about.
 
Wilkinson Dropped a complete clanger with this knife. I was given one to test, ten years or so ago, and it was yuk. The observations made in earlier posts are just about spot on. The handle is huge, the grind is dreadful for all but chopping and then its not that good at it anyway. The cut out tang, to allow for a very small compartment, is a weakness point just awaiting a catastrophe. The nut handle attachment is another weak point. The overall weight is outrageous. Other than for a collector, don't waste your money.

The Wilkinson Survival Knife is a superbly made piece of junk. The marketing boys must have been allowed too much of a say. I think Lofty Wiseman had an input at the early stage, but the end product was not quite what he had in mind. There are fundermental flaws in the design. The real fault was to try too hard to have all the gismoes and a few more. The end result is truely a disaster.
There are only a few knives I dislike more, and these are a few $100's less.

I would be very suprised if Ray Mears endorsed this product as he uses Alan Wood knives which are more of a utility/hunter in style.

[This message has been edited by GREENJACKET (edited 06-18-2001).]
 
Give me a Livesay Air Assualt $150.

Bottle opener? I'll cut a hole in the cap if need be.

Saw teeth? You can chop easier than saw. Maybe its a bad picture, but at 3-4" looks like some teeth are missing.

WAY overpriced!!!!

I'll pick my Kar-Bar over this! -Brian
 
I saw Lofty use one in the 'Duncan Dares' programme (anyone in the UK remember that?) prior to going on one of his courses. I wrote to him asking his opinion of the knife and he replied that it was a waste of money and that his broke.

I'd like to see someone test Lofty's own design of knife - I seem to recall some critcism of the steel used last time I posted a link.

BTW, I'd expect Framar to sell the WS knife for under 200 quid if you really want one.

It's a shame that a company like Wilkinson Sword can't do better or haven't at least revised the design.

Mark
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by GREENJACKET:
I think Lofty Wiseman had an input at the early stage, but the end product was not quite what he had in mind. [This message has been edited by GREENJACKET (edited 06-18-2001).]</font>
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Off the top, I'd say the mirror polish should be a strong clue that nobody who uses the wilderness designed the knife.

Along the lines of the hollow handled knife, I'm still -- very slowly -- trying to put together emergency packs for appropriate occasions, to carry in my car, and maybe one for the house. The knives I got are in the packs. There certainly is room for far more material than could possibly fit within any hollow handle.

Haven't gotten them yet, but fully intend to put in small folding saws, like Gerbers, or one of the gardening outfits like Felco or Corona. Saw will buck up wood faster than any knife or ax, with far less energy expended. Only needs to weigh a few ounces.

For knives, have carbon steel folders, and KaBars by Camillus. Got lots of magnesium from muzzleup and bugsy. Get the fishing gear, first aid kit, and some space blankets, plus some sort of water gear, and I'm good to go. Oh -- cord too. Got the cord.

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Asi es la vida

Bugs
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Bugs3x:
Haven't gotten them yet, but fully intend to put in small folding saws, like Gerbers, or one of the gardening outfits like Felco or Corona. Saw will buck up wood faster than any knife or ax, with far less energy expended. Only needs to weigh a few ounces.</font>
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Bugs, I totally agree with your view about the speed at which a saw can take care of wood, especially small- to mid-size stuff. Plus, the saw outlined below weighs mere ounces. Compare that to the weight of the big survival blades.

The handiest camping saw I've seen is the Zeta brand Japanese folding "Pocket Saw" that I picked up from Frank Tashiro in Seattle. phone: (206) 328-7641 The saw is under "special items" at http://www.tashirohardware.com

The saw is solidly lockable at many angles (270 degrees of rotation relative to the handle axis possible), is lightweight, and has many interchangable blades for cutting green wood (very large teeth) to ripping to dovetail joinery (very fine crosscut). It has a comfy rubber handle and nice big thong hole. Being a Japanese saw, you of course cut on the pull-stroke.

This saw is super handy for garden/brush trimming, woodworking, boatbuilding, trim moulding, framing without electricity, etc. depending on which blade you use. The teeth tips are electro-induction hardened (harder than a file) so you don't sharpen them. You just throw them away when they're totally dulled out, but they're pretty cheap. With the folding handle, as the teeth get dull you simply adjust the angle to make the teeth dig in harder to compensate for the loss of tooth bite. This allows you to prolong the already decent blade life.

I find this saw especially handy to fold up, stick in your back pocket, climb ladder, take out & unfold, cut branch, fold back up, put back in pocket, and climb down ladder. It prevents scratched knuckles or snagged clothes/skin from exposed sawteeth on the way up & down the ladder. Being a bit over 10" long when closed, it's also a very easy size to fit in a pack.

While many of the blades will fit the folding Pocket Saw handle, most of them are too wide to fold all the way into the handle. What he sells as simply the Pocket Saw Blade (I know it as the #210 blade), works fine on both green and dried wood. The Pocket Saw costs $28.75 for the handle & 1 ea #210 blade, shipping extra.

For the woodworkers in the crowd, don't let the teeth per inch (tpi) numbers fool you into believing you'll get ragged cuts from a given blade. The #210 blade at 11 tpi will crosscut a 2x4 smoother than a spanked baby's bottom if you don't push on it too hard.
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HTH,
Greg
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Bugs3x:
Saw will buck up wood faster than any knife or AX, with far less energy expended. Only needs to weigh a few ounces.
</font>
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Bugs3x, I think axes are better for splitting wood or cutting large diameter (pocket chainsaws not counted), real great when need to split out dry heart wood in soaking rain. I was also reminded to this by someone else (hey Hoodoo, how is it going
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) and had to agree.
I had still a Gerber folding sport saw that I like and a pocket chainsaw that is too heavy for my kit.

HM
 
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