Survival Manuals

H

Hoodoo

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Aug 18, 1999
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In the February 2001 issue of "Self Reliance" (formerly "American Survival Guide") there is a critique of some of the military survival manuals currently available. The solar still comes under heavy fire as does information on edible plants and snakebite. A few other areas cited as inaccurate are also noted. One major point of criticism is that once a certain technique becomes published, it often becomes gospel and is then repeated in manual after manual, even if it is wrong or misleading.

Anyone care to comment?


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Hoodoo

I get some pleasure from finding a relentlessly peaceful use for a combative looking knife.
JKM
 
I've OFTEN wondered about the solar still myself! I guess one needs to try it out where ever you are. Around here, if the soil has enough moisture to collect using one, then usually you'll find water somewhere close. If it is so dry that you can't find water, then the still probably won't get you much for your efforts! Or you had might as well keep digging a single well and try to hit water! :lol

As to some other points:
Some of the fishhooks and spears in military manuals look a little unusable, shall I say.

Otherwise I can't say that they are any better or worse than other manuals out there. I've compared so many I quit buying manuals a few years ago!
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It has to be something "really" different for me to get it. Greg's was the last one I bought, WELL worth it!


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Plainsman
primitiveguy@hotmail.com
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Plainsman's Cabin Forums</A>
 
I have survived in the desert under extremely harsh conditions. During this time, I have used all solar methods of aquiring water. Although the underground solar still will produce water... I don't believe it is not worth the amount lost in its creation. However, if created at night, the impact will be far less...

Question: Can you live on the water from a solar still?

--An underground solar still is NOT highly advisable in a true survival episode. They require you to expend energy too create and will yield only small amounts of water in return. In addition, to be effective they have to be moved every two days. If you do decide to use one, you can increase your results by lining the sides with non-poisonous vegetation, salt water, or even urine. The added condensation that drips into your awaiting container is sterile and safe to drink. A better option would be:

--Vegetation bag: this requires filling a bag with non-poisonous vegetation and placing it out into the direct sunlight. By creating a low spot for the subsequent condensation to pool you achieve a water source. Drink off the water at sunset so the vegetation doesn't reabsorb it. The vegetation will need to be changed about once every two days. Better yet,

--Transpiration bag: Using a shrub, tree or bush... cover sun exposed, non-poisonous vegetation with a clear plastic bag. Create a low spot for the condensation to pool. Drink off the water at sunset. Move it every two days. Best part of this system is that the area previously used will rejuvenate and be reusable in several days.

With all of this said... I must admit that it is presented in my first book as an option for water procurement... it is an option just not a good one... it does produce water (I can usually get one to two canteen cups full a day) ... once again, the impact of water lost during its construction can be minimized by making it at night (it doesn't require much energy to create).

There are no clear cut answers in survival and all options should be presented... IMHO.

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Greg Davenport
Simply Survival's Wilderness Survival Forum
Simply Survival's Web Page
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Plainsman,

Here's a couple links to discussions on solar stills (one of which you posted in
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).

http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum18/HTML/000717.html

http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum18/HTML/000365.html

I've never tried it myself. My guess is that conditions have to be perfect for it to work as well as it is often touted. In general, my reading of the old threads suggest that they are not worth the effort. However, they might be worth the experience.
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Since so many people have actually tried making solar stills and have met generally with poor success (and that includes very experienced survivalists), it makes me think that we should be looking at these survival manuals very carefully. Perhaps if we find something that is glaringly in error, we should write a letter or two. Think it would do any good? And how many of these "errors" are transferred from military survival manuals to ones written for popular consumption?

The results of the solar still really were based on experimentation and were published in Science. Yet practical experience seems to suggest that the results were highly optimistic. Maybe those with experience need to provide feedback. Or those who write and revise their manuals need to point out these issues.

I see the same phenomenon in science textbooks. Once something becomes dogma, it is very difficult to get out of the scientific textbooks, even if the experts on that particular bit of information all agree it has been proven wrong. A classic example is that camels store extra water in their body or that they store extra water in their hump in the form of "metabolic water" where water is produced in excess due to the oxidation of hump fat. Both of these notions are false but are still perputated. The essential problem is that textbooks are often written based on other textbooks and not on the primary scientific literature. The trends may be similar for many survival manuals.


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Hoodoo

I get some pleasure from finding a relentlessly peaceful use for a combative looking knife.
JKM

[This message has been edited by Hoodoo (edited 01-02-2001).]
 
Solar still vs. transpiration bag from http://www.powerup.com.au/~kimpub/Survival%20Gear.htm :

"Australia's most experienced professional survival trainer (a former Defense Force Combat Survival Instructor) has had the opportunity to test Desert Survival Bags under a wide range of conditions in Australia's harshest environments, and has also dug well over a thousand solar stills in his lengthy career. The most water he has ever obtained from these stills is 300 millilitres in a 12-hour period. By contrast, his normal yield from one Desert Survival Bag placed over a suitable plant averages over 800 ml. The minimum you can expect under very poor conditions is 200 ml, while maximum yields of over 5 litres from a single plant (over 12 hours) are not unheard of. Working on an average output of between 600 ml and 1.2 litres, it's easy to see that with several bags and some shade to rest in, you would be in far better shape than if you started digging solar stills. The Desert Survival Bag takes only a couple of minutes to set up, so you use little sweat and energy to obtain your water. The pure simplicity and efficiency of this bag has now made all of those old labour-intensive water-gathering methods virtually obsolete."


It also supports the skepticism that solar stills are far from efficient.

HM
 
Sorry, but. . .what's the "solar stills" ??
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I did a search and read. . .and still don't quite sure what is it.
Thanks.
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In as far as snakebite treatment goes, or any other first aid application for that matter, contact your local EMS bureau for accurate protocol. They're usually tickled to provide info.

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It's not the pace of life that concerns me, It's the sudden stop at the end.
 
I sure would like to see a t-bag demonstrated in a video. and a easy way of draining off the water.
As for Solar tills I have made a few. they never gave me much water. But they did attract small animals,FOOD. Maybe I was not building them correctly? Frediver<><
 
I suppose that for a tranpiration bag, you would do the same as with the solar still: run a pice of surgical tubing to the lowest corner of the bag, where the water should collect, and use the tube as a "straw". Just run the tube out of the top of the bag, where it wraps around the branch. The trick would be to get the bag tight enough to prevent moisture loss without crimping the tubing.
 
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