Survive Knives GSO 4.1 in CPM-3V or Bohler M-390?

S

soapboxpreacher

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Wondering what you guys prefer? I currently have a BM Minigrip in M390 and it is currently my favorite steel for a folder. Now in a fixed blade...I dont know. My experience with fixed is 1095 (ESEE), VG-10 (Falk), A2 (Bark), AUS8A (Cold), and a few others. I have been very impressed with what ESEE has shown me in the wake of durability and edge retention in a high carbon. I beat the daylights out of my ESEE. Same can be said with my Falknivens. There VG10 has been beat more then a redheaded stepchild! I have held back nothing on either. As for Barkriver...not so good. Rolling and so further. Gigantic disappointment! And I have babied my Bravo! These are the metals I know for fixed.

As for folders...I have S30V (BM, Zero, Spyderco), M390 (BM), D2 (Lion), 154CM (BM), AUS8A (Cold). As I have said the M390 is amazing! Sharpens easy, holds a great edge forever!, and has taken a beating! As for S30V....well a little disappointing. toothy edge, harder to sharpen, has been average. 154CM...doesnt last long but pie to sharpen so touch up takes 1/4 the effort compared to S30V which hasnt held up as long as I would have expected.

So with all this said this is my experience with these materials. I know nothing about Survive Knives heat threating, edge retention, and so on. I havent seen a fixed in M390. Not sure why if it is merely meant for smaller blade...once again I dont know. As for CPM-3V...zero knowledge and know of no knife out there. I am looking for a bushcraft blade...I like the GSO 4.1 design, handle, profile, and everything. My Bravo was suppose to fit that bill, but I found the steel a disappointment and it seems a little too thick...this is what is leading me to the GSO 4.1
 
For a 4" blade I would go with M390.

In that size blade 3V doesn't offer any advantages over M390 that is very stainless, holds an edge extremely well and is about the same to sharpen.
 
Yeah, you probably can't/won't beat on a 4" knife enough to need 3V toughness at around 58. Take it higher, and M390 comes much closer in toughness as 3V falls and it also has loads more wear resistance. Plus, more stain resistance. So you can stick with what you know and like, or try something different, but you should have a good product either way. 3V is definitely giving up nothing to the other steels you mentioned for fixed blades and with the way you described your opinion on sharpening.
 
So is 3V better? Sounds like it could be from what I am gather. And as Ankerson said "In that size blade 3V doesn't offer any advantages over M390" sounds like there are advantages. I know zero about it. Moreover, does it have better edge retention, tougher, stain resistance, and easier to sharpen?
 
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No to stain, wear, and retention. 3V has greater impact toughness, as long as you keep the hardness below what you would commonly see in an M390 blade (58 is reported as where toughness is greatest). M390 is more stain resistant, more wear resistant, and is pretty tough for the alloying. 3V can take more abuse, and would be easier to grind. In a 4" blade, I don't know if those factors really come into play. It still has plenty of wear resistance compared to other steels you listed as being experienced with, but M390 has quite a bit more.
 
Thanks, I did some more digging and noticed that the 3V has more flex to it...so it wouldnt snap very easily. I think it is tougher from an impact stand point but as you stated stain...nope, wear will be less and retention will be less as well, not horribly but less. Not to say M390 has its benefits. I shouldnt be used in a longer knife..prying could snap it, or even batoning. For the length of the GSO 4.1 M390 would be fine but I would actually go with 3V. I saw a demo of the GSO in S3 and it was beat to death. It held up well! Yes it isnt long but I want a tank as well. Not sure if the M390 would have made it thru the abuse this guy put it thru.
 
Everyone's needs are different and I think you would be really pleased with either steel choice but I from my experience getting a 4 inch blade and wanting it to be a "tank" completely defeats the purpose of having a 4 inch blade.

A small knife is meant to be used for slicing, carving, skinning, and other fine work where having a small blade and the coordination and precision that comes with it makes it a better choice than a larger blade. And in slicing, carving, skinning etc.. tasks wear resistance is much more important than toughness.

Again I don't know how you use your knife or what your needs are but picking a steel that's best property is toughness for a small blade will not make the best performing blade possible.

If you want to use your small knife hard and enjoy using it hard and it works for you awesome. But from a physics standpoint and from my experience wear resistance and even stain resistance are the properties that make a small blade shine. Also M390 is no baby. Ive put my M390 blades through the ringer and they are very tough even at high hardness. I think you'd have to apply a huge amount of lateral pressure to snap one and at 60RC M390 should flex a good amount before it breaks.

But again you will be happy with either steel but I personally think that you will not be getting the best performance possible out of your GSO 4.1 if you go with 3V. Either way Guy makes a great product and you can't go wrong.
 
I have the 4.1 in 3V but when I ordered it from Edgeworks they didn't have it in 390. If I had my choice I would have gone with 390. Not complaint about the 3V but I agree with KalEl. Get it in 390.
 
KalEl said:
Everyone's needs are different and I think you would be really pleased with either steel choice but I from my experience getting a 4 inch blade and wanting it to be a "tank" completely defeats the purpose of having a 4 inch blade.

A small knife is meant to be used for slicing, carving, skinning, and other fine work where having a small blade and the coordination and precision that comes with it makes it a better choice than a larger blade. And in slicing, carving, skinning etc.. tasks wear resistance is much more important than toughness.

Again I don't know how you use your knife or what your needs are but picking a steel that's best property is toughness for a small blade will not make the best performing blade possible.

If you want to use your small knife hard and enjoy using it hard and it works for you awesome. But from a physics standpoint and from my experience wear resistance and even stain resistance are the properties that make a small blade shine. Also M390 is no baby. Ive put my M390 blades through the ringer and they are very tough even at high hardness. I think you'd have to apply a huge amount of lateral pressure to snap one and at 60RC M390 should flex a good amount before it breaks.

But again you will be happy with either steel but I personally think that you will not be getting the best performance possible out of your GSO 4.1 if you go with 3V. Either way Guy makes a great product and you can't go wrong.
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I totally agree 100%. :)
 
What kind of a 'tank' of a knife are you expecting? The 4.1 has a 4 in by 0.156 in thick blade, not awe-inspiring for a 'tank'. You can get a 4.25 in by 0.215 in bladed BRK&T Bravo-1 in 3V, with a decent leather sheath, for $239 shipped - a bit more 'tank-like' - and a great knife. Just a thought...

Stainz

PS If you go for the 4.1 - I like m390!
 
Stainz said:
What kind of a 'tank' of a knife are you expecting? The 4.1 has a 4 in by 0.156 in thick blade, not awe-inspiring for a 'tank'. You can get a 4.25 in by 0.215 in bladed BRK&T Bravo-1 in 3V, with a decent leather sheath, for $239 shipped - a bit more 'tank-like' - and a great knife. Just a thought...

Stainz

PS If you go for the 4.1 - I like m390!
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Agree 100% I got a BRKT Bravo1 in 3V & GSO 4.1 in M390
 
While I am huge fan of 3V for that size knife M390 is about perfect. 3V in a blade that size makes about as much sense as a .25 inch thick steel stock on a 4-5 inch knife. 3V is not a bad steel at all but M390 beats it in every way short of toughness and really how much stress can one put on a 4 inch knife, unless you are being just plain dumb.
 
Quick video:

[video=youtube;blBpIByW5Y8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blBpIByW5Y8[/video]
 
After reading this thread and watching the videos I placed an order for a 4.1 in M390, Camo, with Coyote Sheath on Saturday. I already received my shipping notice and am very excited to see this knife in person!
 
Ankerson said:
Don't know why anyone would have doubts about M390, it's a very good steel. :)
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Well, a somewhat respected knife enthusiast (whom you know) on another forum is busy criticizing it as illogical for such a knife, declaring it fragile at thin geometries, unable to maintain high sharpness because of this, and difficult to maintain (i.e. keep sharp) due to low grindability, lauding O1 and other tool steels as superior for the design. But these seem to be theories stemming from the principles that higher alloy (or more specifically higher carbide) content necessarily reduces toughness, edge stability, and grindability. I await corroborating data from him on the subject...

Care to present your experience with M390 at thin (or thick) geometries? To fragile or difficult to sharpen in the field?
 
chiral.grolim said:
Well, a somewhat respected knife enthusiast (whom you know) on another forum is busy criticizing it as illogical for such a knife, declaring it fragile at thin geometries, unable to maintain high sharpness because of this, and difficult to maintain (i.e. keep sharp) due to low grindability, lauding O1 and other tool steels as superior for the design. But these seem to be theories stemming from the principles that higher alloy (or more specifically higher carbide) content necessarily reduces toughness, edge stability, and grindability. I await corroborating data from him on the subject...

Care to present your experience with M390 at thin (or thick) geometries? To fragile or difficult to sharpen in the field?
Click to expand...

Yeah both, thick and thin geometries....

Like I always say once the bevel is set the steel really doesn't matter all that much as far a touch ups go.

But then with steels like M390 the likelihood of having to even touch it up in the field wouldn't be likely due to the edge retention, but then it would only take seconds with something simple like a ceramic rod.

Yesterday I cut a bunch of pretty thick plastic binding straps with my M390 Military when I had to unpack some stuff at work, didn't effect the edge at all and it's 15 DPS....

That's tougher than the wood like in the video.. A lot tougher.

My Military was HRC tested at 61 HRC.......

As far as the other stuff goes it really doesn't matter at all when talking about a 4" knife as was shown in the video cutting a brick in half.....

So you can take most of what that other person says with a grain of salt. ;)

I put my thin custom in M390 though a lot, and it's .010" behind the edge and 10 DPS and another one even thinner than that at .004" and didn't notice any issues... Both of those where 62 HRC..
 
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