Suspects take a beating....

D

Dave_Williams

Joined
Feb 13, 2001
Messages
50
Hey everybody,

http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum64/HTML/002609.html

Ouch!

Obviously, these mow-rawns(strong southern accent here) just do not understand what the sight of a chisel ground, satin finished, tip up carry liner lock, with ti bolsters and green canvas micarta does to us( I say "us", because I believe I am being converted to this "cult" slowly but surely, with time tested cult recruitment techniques, such as "regularly scheduled chats" and "cool pics").

Luckily, I have a plan to show them things aren't as bad as they think:
I just happen to have $550 laying around. What I think we should do is have "someone" sell "me" a CQC6, at that price($550), for me to use as an EDC. What do you think? Good plan???? I think this will change the perception of the Suspects for the betterment of us all. I know, I'm a real humanitarian, you guys can save the award recommendations. :-)

Dave

P.S. The above was just light humor(large wink)
 
Whiners.

They sometimes stumble into the JSP Forum, stinking drunk on their idea of "Righteous Indignation" that someone like James Piorek can make a good living at Knifemaking, Systems-Design, Sheathmaking, and other weaponry that runs "exotic."

The critics of Hartsfield, Piorek and Emerson are legion, their points are valid to a point. Indeed, how much is a knife worth?

That is like beauty, it is in the Eye of The Beholder. The "Beholder" being "The Market."

It never ceases to amaze me that it is always Hartsfield, Piorek, Emerson, Hartsfield, Piorek, Emerson...it gets so tired, and very old.

You will notice the long waits for Customs, I don't know about Hartsfield, but as far as Emerson, he is in Semi-retirement as far as Customs go, not taking orders, and Piorek is not taking any new Custom Orders so he can catch up.

Lots of stupid people, OR, maybe they simply see something that many do not.

I also found the thread you posted amusing in that one person was a one time "friendly" in here...

Simple economics, the Market dictates the Price. Obviously, there are a whole lot of people out there that are paying absolutely extraordinary prices for these knives.

I see no problem with it.



------------------
"You are no more armed because you are wearing a pistol than you are a musician because you own a guitar." ~Jeff Cooper
And the same goes for a knife...
And, I'm a Usual Suspect.
 
These people seem to bypass the obvious. When you get right down to it, every hand made knife is way overpriced. The materials used do not come close to the value of the knife. The labor involved doesn't bring the value any closer to the going prices. The value comes from those who want a particular makers interpretation of a particular design. The more it is wanted, the higher the price to what ever the markt will bear.

As far as what someone is willing to pay for a knife, it's only the business of the person buying and the person selling.
 
Don,
Your absolutely on target with regard to the maker's names that are served up time and again in these types of roasts.
I checked out the thread "Most ridiculous price you've seen on a knife". The title pretty much sets the tone. This is just a gripe session. Somehow I felt compelled to repond despite the fact that the thread is a tired topic at the base of which is flawed reasoning.
I posted at the thread in hopes to remind them of several things.
1. An item's selling price is what the market will bear.
2. There is more to a knife's price than materials and labor.
3. Whether one likes the knife or maker has little to do with what someone else will pay.

Its kinda funny that in one response a member was at once voicing his approval of the Loveless market and his disapproval of the Emerson market not realizing that they are governed by the same principles.


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Usual Suspect
http://www.freeyellow.com/members8/arkhamdrifter/index.html
 
I love it when a$$holes like that come out of their safe little worlds to shake fingers and bitch about things. I'm a "Fool"? ::sigh:: Nothing like someone who needs to insult and attempt to humiliate others to get off... F-em.
 
Isn't the 1st Amendment a beautiful thing!

------------------
"Never give a sword to a man who can't dance" (Celtic Proverb)
AKTI# A000107
 
Made ya' think, though, didn't it? Made ya' start your own little consolation thread!

heh heh heh...

Come on, guys, lighten up a bit. If you can swing an couple grand on an Emerson, yer doin' all right with life, aren't you?

Hell, I have $8 grand wrapped up in two rifles. (of course, they both shoot 1/2 MOA and are semi-auto). That's indefensible really.

We all got our vices and loves.

Having the funds to exercise our vices is a pretty good gig.




[This message has been edited by rdangerer (edited 03-05-2001).]
 
Rdangerer...Hmm, oh yeah, I remember your name. Your the one who referred to those of us who are currently paying the price for Emersons as "Fools".
Thanks for stopping by to give us the 'ol shoulder pat.

[This message has been edited by arkhamdrifter (edited 03-05-2001).]
 
Poor ol' Usual Suspects;

"we don't get no respect, no respect at all"

Donald
biggrin.gif
 
Yeah, that weasel con artist Rembrandt probably painted "The Night Watch" for 20 bucks worth of paint and a 10 dollar canvas and you can't touch the POS for a million bucks now.
Anyone that would buy that worthless crap would have to be the world's biggest dip****.
rolleyes.gif


"Pity the fool that knows no art, for he knows no passion."
Me.

------------------
Tráceme no sin la razón, envoltura mi no sin honor
Usual Suspect
 
It's funny to see the reactions when someone doesn't agree with a few "suspects" high opinions of Emerson knives. Does name calling really help out your case for Emerson knives? Let see.......call someone an ahole and my respect for YOUR opinions, well, becomes exactly what comes out of your ahole.........Ha!ha!

For those who think these knives are the ultimate, why would you even bother responding to those of us who post our negative opinions on these knives? My opinions run high regarding Microtech, Chris Reeve and a few other makers and I don't "slam" anyone who doesn't agree with my opinions about them. I read the negative posts on my favorites and move on. I like what I like and don't give a crap if anyone else agrees!

Grow up! And, huh, mind your fingers! Ha! Ha!

jc
 
Rdangerer,

Not testy my friend, just pointing out a fact.

If you check my post at the thread in question you'll see that I have no venom to spit. Nor do I need to convince myself that I did the right thing by paying for I did for the knives that I love.

My only point is that there are a set of priciples that determine these markets whether its Loveless or Emerson and whether one person likes them or not.

Trust me when I say that I am very accustomed to people not understanding or sharing my interest. That's cool with me.

But those of us who do are not fools simply reacting to a momentary spasm in the market as your original post suggests. That's all man.

JC,

Good to see you here. Yeah, some people use naughty words. Take what you like and leave the rest. Don't condem a group of people because you don't like one post.

Respectfully,
Ark
Usual Suspect with all digits intact.


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Usual Suspect
http://www.freeyellow.com/members8/arkhamdrifter/index.html

[This message has been edited by arkhamdrifter (edited 03-06-2001).]
 
HEY! It's that nice guy JC! He's back, and he's brining all his Emerson-loving, humble goodness back with him!
rolleyes.gif


::Ahem:: So. Let's see... 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10.... yep - they're all here. And, Gee! That lock of mine still functions beautifully! Gosh! Who woulda thunk it, huh? The POS actually WORKS! Hot damn, am I a lucky fella!
 
Why can't we all just get along people
rolleyes.gif
everyone has their likes and dislikes.I happen to like Emerson Knives I also have a few from Allan Elishewitz and Bob Terzuola.If you guys don't like Emerson Knives why can't you keep your opinions to yourselves.
BTW I still have all my digits also! a little scarred maybe but they're all there
smile.gif


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JimBob
 
Wow guys I never meant for that topic to turn into a slam against anyone.I came across a Leatherman Wave for sale at double what most stores sell it for,they also have a Cs folder that has a very high price and has been for sale for years.I simply wondered if others came across similar prices.
Its been 20 years but I still remember my economics classes from college,and I think I understand the free market quite well thank you.At the same time if your asking double what others sell for and your items sit in your case for years,then I think that you are ridiculously over priced in the market.I'm sorry if guys turned this into a slam against makers, a knife is worth what someone is willing to pay,no more no less,but if it sits around for years it is ridiclous.Well gotta go snowblow some of my "9-5" neighbors driveways.
 
I find the play on words as descriptors, one being "fool" acceptable and one being "a**hole" and that not being accepted because it is "profanity."

You see, what is the difference?

Calling someone a "fool" is the same as calling them an "a**hole."

The only difference being, one is "socially accepted."

The point is, I guess in a polite society, one would not endeavor to call his neighbor a fool to begin with unless he takes a $2,000 knife and sticks it in a vice and breaks it, etc.

When you call someone a "fool," and they call you an "a**shole" in return, do not attempt to claim some moral high ground or superiority for anyone that has a knowledge of the basics of language knows that this is a Red Herring anyway.

Personally, let's run this topic another way to a man that almost gives his knives away. Well, Father and Son.

Pat and Wes Crawford.

I have a full sized WORTAC, I cannot wait to get a full sized KFF in the future. No bolsters, black micarta and satin finish blade.

About a $400.00 to $425.00 knife. The knife is easily worth $200.00 more. Pat and Wes could probably charge that much and they choose not to. For whatever reason, maybe they are somehow more "Noble" than others, I don't know. I do know they make some absolutely beautiful knives.

I don't know who could dispute that.

------------------
"You are no more armed because you are wearing a pistol than you are a musician because you own a guitar." ~Jeff Cooper
And the same goes for a knife...
And, I'm a Usual Suspect.
 
I have been purposefully staying out of this post, but it's time to chime in. Irregardless of your opinions, let's keep it fairly civil. Please keep the name calling to a minimum.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">When you call someone a "fool," and they call you an "a**shole" in return, do not attempt to claim some moral high ground or superiority . . .</font>
Click to expand...

Once again, Don is correct

Are there makers out there equal to Ernie, absolutely. Are these makers works easier to get and less expensive, either from the maker or on the secondary market? You betcha.

I don't think there is a person here that collects ONLY Ernie's work. I own customs from a smattering of other great makers, Elishewitz, Lightfoot, Weiland, Ryan and others. I'm always on the lookout for other knives that appeal to me.

Personally Loveless knives do very little for me. Even at "retail" I don't think I would be interested in most of them. But I don't ridicule those that do collect his work. I understand that demand for his work has far out paced supply. I wish those collectors luck in finding the pieces that they want. (At the last Blade Show I saw a set for sale at a price that would be a damn nice house)

Which brings us to "Worth". What something is "worth" is directly related to what one party is willing to pay for an item and what the owner is willing to take for it. As there doesn't seem to be a problem selling Ernie's customs, I think that test has been met pretty well.

Ernie's customs demand a premium on the Secondary Market. Sorry, it happens. If there were enough to go around to everyone that wanted them, they wouldn't. Until a few thousand more customs come on the market, that probably will not change.

My best advice is to collect what interests you. If that's custom knives, you go. If it's antique furniture, more power to ya'. If your looking to "invest", play the stock market or buy into a Car Wash chain.

Respectfully,

John

[This message has been edited by John Hollister (edited 03-06-2001).]
 
John,

I don't know if it is BladeArt or what site it is, but they have some incredibly expensive knives on there.

When I was sitting here looking at things, my Wife and myself, we were not sitting here saying to each other, "What kind of idiot/moron/fool would buy that?"

We just sat here and marveled at how knives could fetch such a high price, much higher than Ernie's knives as you have pointed out. I believe some of them were Loveless.

I think it is somewhat safe to assume from most of the posts in here and other places at Bladeforums, that the majority of people that are into "Tactical" knives are basically a "Conservative" group. We don't like gun and knife laws and we tend to run towards Pro-Concealed Carry Laws, etc...

The reason I bring this up is, it feels at times, as if you, Arkham and myself, among others, are teaching people who lean to the "conservative" side of life, what basic economics are.

I think we need a link to Hayek's "Road to Serfdom" on here or something.
wink.gif


Anyway, I love Microtechs, but, some of the Higher-End Custom versions that are done by Tony Marfione himself, are they really worth that much money?

If a certain group are willing to pay that, then the answer is yes. If the knife community as a whole are not so inclined, the price will be lowered to fit the market or Mr. Marfione would simply no longer be in business. Simple as that.

When Mr. Marfione makes a knife by his own hand, what he does is, he sets a price, literally, on what he wants to make for his time. His time.

I have a Mike Snody Kwaiken, for example. The knife is about $230.00 a knife like this from Hartsfield would be approximately $700.00, from James Piorek, about $500.00 from Martin, I would say about $400.00 now.

Martin is a prime example of a "fast mover" in the "Japanese influenced, Tactical" realm of knives.

His knives at one time were very affordable as Snody's and Corkum's are now, and alot of people caught wind of it and the demand grew, with that, the prices went up.

I've handled Hartsfield, Piorek, Polzien, Martin, Corkum and Snody types of Tanto, they are all great knives, yet some fetch higher prices because of established demand that the Makers wish to capitalize on. There is that filthy, stinking, rotten word..."capitalize."

So, the arguments over materials is a non-issue, no one is going to argue that Ernie's materials, ATS-34/154CM, G10 or Micarta, or Titanium is any better than that utilized by Marfione. No one is going to say that the A2 Tool Steel used by Piorek, Martin and Snody is some superior or more expensive steel than the other maker uses.

It is the time calculated in making the knife and what that Maker's time is personally worth to him.

This is really silly to have to explain this.

The mere fact that Ernie has a backlog along with Piorek and others tells the story.

Lots of "fools" huh? Well damn.
smile.gif



------------------
"You are no more armed because you are wearing a pistol than you are a musician because you own a guitar." ~Jeff Cooper
And the same goes for a knife...
And, I'm a Usual Suspect.
 
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