Swamp Rat D2 vs. Dozier D2

[daniel4572]

I have both the Dozier Wilderness and the Swamp Rat Bog Dog in D2..
Just wondering if anyone could comment on the differences between the treatment of D2 steel between these two companys????
I dont need both of these knives, which one would you keep and why???

 

[Jim Craig]

Send me the Dozier if you don't want it!!!
Fine, sell it to me if you must. But definately get rid of that one, and keep your Swammp Rat.

 

[daniel4572]

thanks Jm, Ill keep that in mind but something tells me Ill be keeping both, but if not youll be the first to know......

 

[Troy H]

Hi Daniel.

I don't have any experience or information on Doziers D2 steel, but here's a link to some torture testing of the Swamp's D2. :thumbup:

Good luck in your choice.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

I have used both, they are not similar, in comparison to the Swamp Rat's Dozier is very brittle. This is a Safari Skinner :

http://photobucket.com/albums/y269/...ction=view&current=safari_skinner_icepick.jpg

I modified the edge, lowered the edge angle back to about ten degrees per side, mainly as that is where I do most stock comparisons. The only damage from the knife was in the tip where it went through the ice and smacked into some rocks, sub mm damage.

There are many reasons to break ice in this manner, melt it to drink, remove it to start a fire or dig a hole (posts). In this case I was preparing to go ice-fishing and wanted to see how much longer it would take to dig through ice with a small knife like the Safari Skinner vs a hatchet.

I tested it out on that ice before hand just to verify the tip was robust enough which it was, the stabs were fairly heavy, as seen from the size of the slabs. If I had to do a lot of this I'd last it to a pole and make a pick as you have to use way too much shoulder using it as a ice pick. Similar construction would allow you to do it standing which is easier on the back.

As a side note, the tip has a fairly distinct upsweep and it goes into the ice really aggressively in a reverse stab. The upsweep has drawbacks though, for batoning and some ergonomics (hand pressure on spine), plus tip carving woods is problematic, on a general working knife I'd rather have a drop or traditional tanto (japanese) point.

-Cliff

 

[bill_G]

i don't want to put words in anyone's mouth....but are you saying my dozier K2 is not suitable for field work??

i have read nothing but praise about Bob's heat treating of D2, and yet some think its very brittle?

anyone else concur on this?

thanks..........Bill

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Ask Dozier if his knives are meant to do what has been demonstrated by Swamp Rat with their D2 blades in regards to impacts. Dozier has always been clear they are not meant to and that his designs are optomized along different lines, that doesn't make it wrong it is simply a different point of view.

I have lots of knives which are very brittle, M2 at 65 HRC, CPM-10V at 62.5 HRC, 1095 knife at 66 HRC, etc. . None of these I would call tough (nor would the makers) due to the way they are ground and hardened. That doesn't mean you can't use them "in the field" you just use them suitable to their design.

I have some knives which are less than 1/16" thick, with full hollow grinds with edges which are 3-5 degrees per side. I have other knives which are 3/8" thick with wide convex bevels which are 15 degrees per side, they all get "field use", in fact for many of the same tasks, but not in the same way.

What is the optimal knife depends on the task, there is some work I would pick a Safari Skinner over a K2 and other work I would pick a K2 over a Safari Skinner. The same is true in general of pretty much any two knives.

-Cliff

 

[Tsme]

It seems to me that you can't readily compare the *steel* in different knives through testing, if they have different blade thicknesses and profiles. Dozier knives are generally concave ground while Swamp Rats are thicker with a flat grind and convex edge. As Cliff says they are optimized for different tasks.

Optimization can extend to the heat treatment as well. A knife that's more brittle under impact but holds an edge longer while cutting isn't better or worse per se, only better or worse for a given application.

Bill D.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

It seems to me that you can't readily compare the *steel* in different knives through testing, if they have different blade thicknesses and profiles.

It is difficult but depends on what you are trying to say and how the work is done and what happens.

Dozier knives are generally concave ground while Swamp Rats are thicker with a flat grind and convex edge.

The Safari Skinner is the same stock thickness as most of Dozier's knives, just slightly over 1/8". The D2 Swamp Rat's are built far lighter than the SR101 blades as they are intended to be more cutting based and less general utility. The edge on the Safari Skinner I had was 0.022-0.027" thick and ground at the same included angle as the K2 I had.

A knife that's more brittle under impact but holds an edge longer while cutting isn't better or worse per se...

Generally not, however Dozier's blades don't hold a better edge cutting soft materials based on what I have seen. Dozier's intitial sharpness is higher, among the best I have seen, and he leaves the edge very coarse which gives very high slicing edge retention. The same type of edge can of course be applied to any knife.

-Cliff

 

[Dick]

I use my knives while camping to prepare food and doing something on the wood working for good staying at the camp so I prefer the design of Rats to Dozier who make blades so thin and mostlikely they are lazer sharp which is not neccessary for my nature of use.