Swamp Rat Howling Rat LM vs. Busse SAR 3 vs. a Dozier

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Kirk_Ferentz

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Feb 16, 2010
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[I have edited this to include the Bark River Gunny among the options!!! I forgot about BRKT when I was posting this]

I have made several posts trying to narrow down my search for a hunting knife that can double as small survival knife if need be. I thank all of you who have provided insight. I think that this may be my last post on the topic. With your help, I have eliminated a lot of knives from the running, and I think that I will soon be choosing one of these three.

Here are my thoughts on each:

1. Swamp rat HRLM -- probably leaning towards this one. In addition to being able to serve me very well as a tough hunting knife, I think that this knife would see a lot more general use that the dozier probably would not. It is a little bit longer than I would say is ideal for what I want, but it is within the range. Also, I think the SR-101 steel really seems to have a great balance of excellent edge retention and easy re-sharpening ability. I think that I would be glad to have this when wanting to re-sharpen in the field.

2. Busse SAR 3 -- it costs a good chunk more than #1, but if the difference is substantial, I might be willing to pay it. Whereas #1's blade is a little too long, I would say 3 inches is a little shorter than I would like. I don't have huge hands, so I am thinking that the handle will be fine (not too small). I suppose the real test is whether I want INFI or the SR-101 ... from what I have seen, the SR-101 may be the better choice (as well as saving me some cash).

3. A dozier -- I had a post about which dozier would be for me ... perhaps the master skinner. It sounds like dozier's d-2 has some of the greatest edge retention that you could ask for, but at the cost of being pretty difficult (and in the opinion of many, extremely difficult to re-sharpen in the field). If I wanted a hunting-only knife, I'd go with a dozier, but I wonder if # 1 and 2 have an edge in terms of blade durability. Does the dozier lose strength in comparison to less hard blades? Also, the swamp rat has a beefier blade (.187'' vs. .16'' of the dozier master skinner, which is the beefiest of the doziers--the busse is also .16''). Input here would be useful.

I would also say that the length of a knife like the master skinner (about 3.5'') is a perfect fit, and, although I'm not really concerned about rust/corrosion in INFI or SR-101, it sounds like D-2 is a lot closer to stainless in this regard.

4. Bark River Gunny -- I think that A2 would be the best BRKT option, but that is open for discussion. I have heard great general things about A2 ... but getting down to specifics, how would it compare to SR-101 in terms of hunting and survival considerations such as edge retention, resistance to chipping, lateral strength, re-sharpening ease, etc.? I haven't seen as many SPECIFICS on A2. I think the steel is really the deciding factor here (the design is great and the blade length is just right), but I have heard a lot about the comfort and ease of use from Bark River designs. It seems that this knife is somewhere in between the dozier and the others in terms of the survival knife / hunting knife spectrum.

Tell me what you think!
 
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I know we the BF population are known for suggesting other blades (oh well!) but just incase you haven't looked at the Bark River line.. the STS-3 I had would be a good compromise between the 3 you have there...

Between the 3, I've had #1 and #2. If I were choosing a blade to USE I'd go with the HRLM. Solely because I found the SAR3's handle to be rather uncomfortable (thus why I sold mine). The HRLM was more comfy, but I found the choil to be rather useless. That said, my STS3 was more comfy (had the g10 version) than either of the 2, and the convex grind was stuuuupid sharp...

IF I had to choose I say HRLM, if I could add in the STS, I'd go with the STS... here is a pic of my outdoors/hunting larger fixed blades (I only kept the RMD, and regret selling the STS3). (another few to consider if you didn't already look at them, the Bravo, fox river, and the Gunny).

fixedblades.jpg
 
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You are right on myown ... I had eliminated a lot of knives but in my haste to get to a final decision, I completely forgot about Bark River. I really have no reason to eliminate them yet.

I will take your word about the STS being more comfortable to work with, but what about the steel? I have heard a lot of great things about A2, but most of it is general (e.g. "It's some of the best blade steel out there!", and I am more of a fan of specifics. Edge retention, proneness to chipping, lateral strength, re-sharpening ease ... I'm sure it is great in all of these, but how does it stack up against Dozier D-2 and SR-101. I will do some research but might as well throw it out there since it came up.
 
Actually, since it looks like the STS is 154cm, I should include that as well, although if I choose bark river, I might go for one of the A2 models.
 
Bark River A2 is great (duh), but I didn't actually notice the 154cm lacking in any way. It was nice to not worry about the blade rusting though (even though I always oil my blades, it's nice to not worry at all). You'd have to talk to a more knowledgable person on that note, because I didn't use it enough to have a definitive answer... I just know the size looks about right for your description, and the handle is quite comfy (like all bark river handles). If you don't like the 154, check out the others as the gunny and bravo have both A2 and stainless versions. I personally think the fox river makes a great all around blade, while the gunny/bravo have a little more "survival" rather than hunting in them.
 
I have no experience with Swamp Rat or Busse blades, but I can tell you this: Bob Dozier is the master with D2, you will not be disappointed with cutting performance. And I've personally had no issues with sharpening, just get some diamond plates and go to town.

Edit: just realised you want it to double as a survival knife. Like I said, cutting performance is superb. Prying, batonning and all that jazz, I'm unsure, and not willing to find out. Would be the better bet to say that INFI steel has proved itself in that field.
 
From what you are describing, the SR would be my choice. I have HR's, Busse's, and Doziers. The Doziers really do excel at edge retention (and they are easy to sharpen), but are not my first choice for a tough knife. For a dedicated hunting knife that will never pry, yes.

The difference between INFI and 52100 (SR101) is minor, IMO. The 52100 takes a great edge, is very easy to sharpen, and is very tough indeed. Plus, the HR ergonomics are great. There are other knives similarly good, but I wouldn't ever feel bad about owning the HR. It's a great knife, and yes, I've got a couple of them. One of my favorites.
 
As for the BRKT offerings, I think it would be either the Gunny or the Woodland Special, probably the Gunny since the Woodland Special's blade seems to be somewhat skinny. I would think that A2 is the way to go.

I am going to edit the OP to reflect these options. Thanks for bringing up BRKT myown.
 
Among the three you name I would go with #1, although for a survival knife I would say it's on the short side. You say for you it's on the long side of what you want, so that's really up to you.

If you wanted to spend the money, there are other Busse's that would suit your purpose better than the SAR3, but that's a whole other conversation, just sayin'.

Dozier, as you have said is the (IMO) best hunter of the bunch, but not as well suited to the survival role. You already know it's harder to sharpen in the field and Dozier uses a hollow grind with fairly thin edges which makes them excellent slicers, but sacrifices some durability. IIRC, his website comes right out and says his knives are for cutting- period. -or something to that effect. With all that said, he makes an excellent knife and you sure don't hear about many of them breaking.

I'm a big fan of Bark River, and there's a lot of models there to choose from.

Depending on your point of view, this is either a great or a terrible time to be looking for a knife. We have an embarrassment of riches. Half my collection resulted from looking for that "just right" knife. I haven't found it yet, but most of them have been so good I don't really want to let them go, either!

Looking forward to seeing what you end up with, and how you like it, so don't forget to post!
 
No problemo man, Mike is a great guy and BRKT is a great company, glad to bring them to your list. Not that adding new suggestions makes choosing any easier haha...
 
If you are open to new choices, you really owe it to yourself to look at a Fehrman Peacemaker. Fantastic knife also, great 3V steel.
 
sodak said:
If you are open to new choices, you really owe it to yourself to look at a Fehrman Peacemaker. Fantastic knife also, great 3V steel.
Click to expand...

A lot of people rank 3V very highly but I have seen some indications that the SR-101 has better edge retention. Also, I like the look of the other knives more, and there is a lot more feedback available about them. However, I have seen only positive reviews of the Fehrman, so not a knock on it.
 
This thread is old now, but..
What did you get, did you decide?
I recently got the BRKT Custom Highland Special. It's almost 1/4" thick, 4" long, and made of CPM S35VN. It's awesome to hold. More comfy than the Bravo.
I just got it, and haven't put it through hard use. Worth looking at.
 
I have the HRLM, and would buy the SAS if it came in a high carbon steel. The HRLM is a no holds barred ideal companion/survival knife. The steel, the ergonomics, the blade design and fit and finish... I don't think you could conceivably produce a survival knife as high performance or effective, unless they factory ground the edge to 15 instead of 30 degrees...
 
I ended up going with the HRLM. I haven't really given it much of a review because I haven't had a chance to put it through the paces yet. But I can say that it looks and feels great. Very sharp out of the box too. As sharp as I will ever need it.

One thing that looking back, I didn't think enough about is the handle design. The HRLM has a full sized handle. If you want a hard use/survival knife, make sure to get something with a full sized handle, which will give you a lot more power and leverage. The other knives in the title of this post probably lack quite a bit in that area compared to the HRLM. And the HRLM's handle fits great in the hand. Should be very comfortable for extended use.

The blade is beefy but not overkill. I think it is abotu .18''-ish. For a blade this size, I think .2+ might be overkill. It definitely would detract from its utility for a lot of tasks, not the least of which is dressing game.

I recently saw that the Bravo 1 did not do all too wonderfully in the destruction tests. I don't think they have tested a swamp rat, but I saw that a busse did very well. I wonder if the swamp rat is tougher all around than the bravo. Hard to say. But having the knife in hand, I cannot imagine that it would not be able to take a ridiculous amount of abuse.

The only possible second thought that I have is that maybe I should have gotten a ratmandu (longer blade). But I think i chose correctly--my plan is to couple it with a larger knife like a chopweiler or a larger busse eventually. So, smaller blade and larger blade rather than the ratmandu, which is right in between. And I liked the blade geometry of the HRLM more than the ratmandu.

I don't know anything about that S35VN. Is that like vanax?
 
I have a Ratmandu which I chose over the HRLM. The SR 101/52100 steel is so fantastic that I had a custom chopper forged from it with a differential temper.

I agree with your thoughts on the handle. Most folks put far too little thought into the handle of the knife, and a badly designed handle will make even an outstanding blade into a very poorly performing knife.

Only thing I don't like about the RMD is the choil.
 
I forgot to address the choil. I don't know if I will favor it over not having a choil at this point--have to give it some more use. But I will say that it works fine for me, and my fingers are pretty normal sized I think.
 
Kirk Don't worry about the destruction tests. They don't reveal anything about a knifes performance.

The Bravo didn't do well in the test only because the convex edge wasn't designed to be pounded through concrete blocks.

As to Swamp Rat's performance. I was so impressed with the edge quality and retention on my Ratmandu that I commissioned and have now recieved a custom forged chopper from the same steel.

The A2 from BRKT is nearly as good a performer or it's equal. Just depends on who your talking too.
 
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