Have Swamp Rat fans taken a look at the RAT (Randall's Adventure and Training) series from Ontario knives? I have a RAT3 in D2 and it really is a great little knife. I don't think RAT knives have the cult-like following that Swamp Rat enjoys but they sure seem like fine knives to me. Based on the website, it appears RAT knives are in use in many South American countries by various militaries and police groups. What think you?
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Swamp Rats vs. RAT's
- Thread starter Willieboy
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Fit and finish is night-and-day. I've got (well, it's going, but still in my possession) a RAT-7. Handle fit is OK. It's production. I understand that. The fact that it's cut so that none of hte linen is available for "grip" except on the corners is a bad design feature.
The RAT-3 would be comparable to a Howlin Rat. Original HR price is probably comparable, but unavailable at this point. I'd rather have the Respirene-C vs. Micarta. I dislike both b/c a large choil in that size knife gets in the way for me.
I have no factual basis, but I also worry about Ontario's work with D-2. I'd like somewhere for them to tell me they spent a pile of time heat-treating it correctly. If it's just plain old D-2, it CAN be brittle. PErhaps not on anything I'd do to it, but I can't help thinking about it. When working in D-2, I'd like a known heat-treat like Busse/SR or Dozier. Heck, in ANY steel, I'd pay extra for a decent heat-treat.
This is not to say that RAT-knives are junk. They aren't. Good products. Unfortunately, I have a screw loose that requires me to seek out hte absolute best of anything I buy.
The RAT-3 would be comparable to a Howlin Rat. Original HR price is probably comparable, but unavailable at this point. I'd rather have the Respirene-C vs. Micarta. I dislike both b/c a large choil in that size knife gets in the way for me.
I have no factual basis, but I also worry about Ontario's work with D-2. I'd like somewhere for them to tell me they spent a pile of time heat-treating it correctly. If it's just plain old D-2, it CAN be brittle. PErhaps not on anything I'd do to it, but I can't help thinking about it. When working in D-2, I'd like a known heat-treat like Busse/SR or Dozier. Heck, in ANY steel, I'd pay extra for a decent heat-treat.
This is not to say that RAT-knives are junk. They aren't. Good products. Unfortunately, I have a screw loose that requires me to seek out hte absolute best of anything I buy.
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- Dec 26, 2002
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Ontario'S RAT knives are good knives, but just use them as knives don't torque, twist, batton, or use them as pry bars.
Swamp Rat knives try to break them as long as you don't shoot it with a 30-30 or beat on it with a 26" pipewrench, you more than likely won't break it and can pass it down to your kids and grandkids to use.
Swamp Rat knives try to break them as long as you don't shoot it with a 30-30 or beat on it with a 26" pipewrench, you more than likely won't break it and can pass it down to your kids and grandkids to use.
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- Nov 30, 2001
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- 13,564
Hey Willieboy, where in south Texas are ya? 
I've handled quite a few of the Randall design knives and so far they've been good stuff, unfortunately Ontario doesnt always follow good heat treat protocols and some of their blades have been hit or miss. I think lately Randall has been on their backs quite a lot about this and things will hopefully improve. I was dissappionted to see the demise of the RTAK, but it looks like a similar size chopper is in the works.
Compared to the Swamp, you get what you pay for. The RAT knives are budget based and they do gloss over some of the finer issues. Spend a little more and get an unconditional guarantee, and higher performance, better heat treat.
Unfortunately the Swamp is a gateway drug to a much more expensive habit. I was lucky in that no other company but Busse existed when I started, much easier to justify the Rats in the house!
I've handled quite a few of the Randall design knives and so far they've been good stuff, unfortunately Ontario doesnt always follow good heat treat protocols and some of their blades have been hit or miss. I think lately Randall has been on their backs quite a lot about this and things will hopefully improve. I was dissappionted to see the demise of the RTAK, but it looks like a similar size chopper is in the works.
Compared to the Swamp, you get what you pay for. The RAT knives are budget based and they do gloss over some of the finer issues. Spend a little more and get an unconditional guarantee, and higher performance, better heat treat.
Unfortunately the Swamp is a gateway drug to a much more expensive habit. I was lucky in that no other company but Busse existed when I started, much easier to justify the Rats in the house!
After I bought one knife of the Ontario Spec-Plus line I was a bit sceptic about the Ontario quality-control. The knife was fine but I really didnt liked it so sold that one. About a year later I bought the Howling Rat as my ultimate small camp knife, great for Europe because it looks are very sheeply friendly but as we al know its looks are deceiving
I didnt like some things about the HR (finger-choil and small/thin handle) so started searching for a lil bigger outdoor knife. After some looking at other knifes I gave Ontario a second change and bought a TAK (1095).
The Swamp is a better knife in allot of ways but the TAK can stand its ground. Useful shape, good coating and good steel for you money that holds a razor sharp V-edge for quite some time. In the quest for the ultimate knife I have to say I dont like its heavy weight and almost square handle (but easy to customize).
Swamp Rat and Ontario-RAT are both good knifes for your money. Both have a excellent outdoor character and will take a beating. But the Swamp Rat warranty and steel makes it the better knife. Although in times like these when there arent any s-rats around the other RAT family is a good second choice.
(also think about Camillus-Becker and Ranger knifes when discussing good and cheap utility knifes)
I didnt like some things about the HR (finger-choil and small/thin handle) so started searching for a lil bigger outdoor knife. After some looking at other knifes I gave Ontario a second change and bought a TAK (1095).
The Swamp is a better knife in allot of ways but the TAK can stand its ground. Useful shape, good coating and good steel for you money that holds a razor sharp V-edge for quite some time. In the quest for the ultimate knife I have to say I dont like its heavy weight and almost square handle (but easy to customize).
Swamp Rat and Ontario-RAT are both good knifes for your money. Both have a excellent outdoor character and will take a beating. But the Swamp Rat warranty and steel makes it the better knife. Although in times like these when there arent any s-rats around the other RAT family is a good second choice.
(also think about Camillus-Becker and Ranger knifes when discussing good and cheap utility knifes)
Hey Leatherman. I'm in Houston. The last couple of years, i've been buying customs but recently bought a RAT-3. I've always admired Busse's knives, especially the smaller models, but I've been one of his detractors regarding the fact he has as many knife companies as he does knife models. Anyway, I stopped considering Busse's knives and picked up a couple of TOP's knives, a Becker C/U7 and the RAT-3. All seem to be very good users, though probably lacking the fit and finish of a Busse. I was so pleased with the RAT-3, I bought a TAK and the Model 1 folder. These RAT's are addictive also. I've got the RAT-5 on order now and that will be it for awhile. Now if I only had the energy to get off my butt and go cut something.
Hello Pietje010,
I agree Ontario's RAT line lacks some of the fit and finish of other lines. To there credit though, Mike and Jeff go out of there way to provide excellent customer service. In researching the Ontarion RAT line, I discovered these knives are widely used by the US Military as well as military and police agencies in South America. The knives seem to be holding up well in these hostile environments and that's important to me. Furthermore, I can live with a grind line or edge bevel that's not quite right. That's why God invented the diamond hone. A little fluff and buff and the Ontario RAT's are ready to go.
I agree too that the Becker line is solid. I have a Becker C/U7 that has been a solid performer.
I read nothing but good things about the Ranger knives. However, I read on a different forum that the maker of Ranger knives is an active duty US Army Ranger and he will be deploying again soon to the big sand box. God bless him.
I agree Ontario's RAT line lacks some of the fit and finish of other lines. To there credit though, Mike and Jeff go out of there way to provide excellent customer service. In researching the Ontarion RAT line, I discovered these knives are widely used by the US Military as well as military and police agencies in South America. The knives seem to be holding up well in these hostile environments and that's important to me. Furthermore, I can live with a grind line or edge bevel that's not quite right. That's why God invented the diamond hone. A little fluff and buff and the Ontario RAT's are ready to go.
I agree too that the Becker line is solid. I have a Becker C/U7 that has been a solid performer.
I read nothing but good things about the Ranger knives. However, I read on a different forum that the maker of Ranger knives is an active duty US Army Ranger and he will be deploying again soon to the big sand box. God bless him.
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I keep looking at that little Becker. But then I think, "where would I use it that I wouldn't already use a Busse or Rat???"
Esp. since the little one (Crewman) is somehow the most expensive of them. ????
I also don't like the humunga-choiled HR. Can't wait to see the new one - in two weeks.
Esp. since the little one (Crewman) is somehow the most expensive of them. ????
I also don't like the humunga-choiled HR. Can't wait to see the new one - in two weeks.
I didn't think the Crewman was so expensive. About $44 I thought. The Companion, which appears to be about the same size is more pricey, I guess due to its thickness.
My RAT 3 has the large choil in the blade. I've never had a knife with that feature before but I really like it. I can choke up on the blade for better control and it also made sharpening on a Sharpmaker easier.
My RAT 3 has the large choil in the blade. I've never had a knife with that feature before but I really like it. I can choke up on the blade for better control and it also made sharpening on a Sharpmaker easier.
silenthunterstudios
Slipjoint Addict
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I have a Camp Tramp, Bog Dog and Battle Rat, and an Ontario TAK 1. I really like my SR's, but the TAK 1 is a great knife too. Looking at the Rat 3, Rat 5 and Rat 7 all in D2.
Eric Isaacson
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- Dec 19, 1999
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Willieboy,
It appears you have your answer. Both are good companies with a good line of knives, I personally prefer Swamp Rats for their extreme performance. (I think you knew this before you posted this thread as you brag about RAT knives in a large majority of your posts)
Too bad that they don't have their own forum on Bladeforums, maybe you can talk to them and see if they'll ask Spark for one.
It is obvious you have ulterior motives on this thread and most of your other posts on this forum. Feel free to email me direct and explain if I'm wrong ratknives@insightbb.com or you can view my website at www.ratknives.com (yes I own the RATKnives website )
I'm locking this thread (I can do that as I'm the moderator here, if you convince Ontario to get a forum maybe you can moderate it )
It appears you have your answer. Both are good companies with a good line of knives, I personally prefer Swamp Rats for their extreme performance. (I think you knew this before you posted this thread as you brag about RAT knives in a large majority of your posts)
Too bad that they don't have their own forum on Bladeforums, maybe you can talk to them and see if they'll ask Spark for one.
It is obvious you have ulterior motives on this thread and most of your other posts on this forum. Feel free to email me direct and explain if I'm wrong ratknives@insightbb.com or you can view my website at www.ratknives.com (yes I own the RATKnives website
) I'm locking this thread (I can do that as I'm the moderator here, if you convince Ontario to get a forum maybe you can moderate it
)- Status