Sweaters.

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Oct 2, 2004
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Like most old folks, the cold becomes more of an enemy the older you get. And like most things, there's a fix. The past few years we, the better half and myself, have gone back to old fashioned sweaters. Real bulky knit stuff, like fishermns sweaters and real wool. I don't like itchy stuff, so I' e been using theheck out of a Cabella's sportsmen sweater of lambs wool. No itch factor from it.

In real cold, below freezing temps, the old school sweaters seem to be way warmer than the synthetic material fleece stuff that they sell nowadays. We tried the fleece stuff, and made sure it was the real Malden Mills poly fleece. It all ended up down a the Salvation army store where we dropped it off. After two winters with it, we went back to the knit sweaters. Very noticeably warmer. Today, we'rehaving temps in the upper 20's, light snow flurries, and with a nice thick sweater, I didn't really need much of a warm or heavy coat. A cable knit lambs wool sweater under a Cabella's three season jacket, was warm enough to take my time while walking the corgi and enjoy a slow pipe of nice tobacco. Since 80% of our heat loss is through the head, I had on a nice thick Alpaca wool balaclava hat rolled down over my ears and neck. After about halfway through the walk I had to roll up the balaclava to uncover some of my ears and neck.

Now least you all think of this as a inditement of synthetic, last night I did the same thing with a fisherman sweater made out of acrylic knit. Same result, very warm. Lots high winds, dark, but with the seater layered under the Cabella's jacket. The same jacket last winter with a Malden mills poly fleece 300 jacket under it was not warm enough.

I can only conclude from this, that the material matters a little, but that bulky knit sweaters like fishrmans or cable knit, trap much more air than this new fleece stuff that there is a notable difference in cold weather performance. YMMV, but to me it seems like the old school sweater under a fairly light wind proof jacket works better than the new fleece material. Senior citizens don't like being cold, and our bones tell us what works best.
 
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I'm also an old fella,I hate being cold .Filson lined shirts and carhartt lined pants have made a great difference.Cant stand poly fleece stuff,wool is my choice also.
 
I got a nice fisherman's sweater for Christmas from a British company called Wool-overs. It is great when the house feels drafty.
 
Two things spring to mind: 1] I'm certain you are wrong about the amount of heat loss through the head. You might want to research that because it has be demonstrated to be an old wives tale. 2] For the analysis to have any meaning you need to control your variables. You can't simply do a garment to garment comparison without taking weight into account. Did you weight the sweaters and the fleece? I think you'll get a different pattern of results if you compare ounce to ounce.
 
Ill back baldtaco-II play here. First the myth from an 1970 Army Survival manual said 40-45% heat loss from your head not 80%. That was debunked back in the late 2000's. A hat obviously helps but it isn't the significant contribution we once thought.
 
Two things spring to mind: 1] I'm certain you are wrong about the amount of heat loss through the head. You might want to research that because it has be demonstrated to be an old wives tale. 2] For the analysis to have any meaning you need to control your variables. You can't simply do a garment to garment comparison without taking weight into account. Did you weight the sweaters and the fleece? I think you'll get a different pattern of results if you compare ounce to ounce.
Yeah, more like 10% heat loss.
If this were a real comparison instead of a troll post, we'd be talking about goose down. It's not a real comparison, though.
 
Two things spring to mind: 1] I'm certain you are wrong about the amount of heat loss through the head. You might want to research that because it has be demonstrated to be an old wives tale. 2] For the analysis to have any meaning you need to control your variables. You can't simply do a garment to garment comparison without taking weight into account. Did you weight the sweaters and the fleece? I think you'll get a different pattern of results if you compare ounce to ounce.

I never made any claims to a scientific test, just a post about my impressions of trying fleece stuff vs the old school knitted sweaters. I'm not a scientist, just a retired machinist with a lifetime of outdoors experience to draw on. So far, it seems to me, and as I said, YMMV, the knit yarn type of sweater seems to trap more air and give more warmth than this new style fleece stuff they sell. Both my wife and I have tried the fleece stuff, and it just does not seem as warm and cozy feeling as a sweater. As for me being a troll, Sorry, I was under the impression that this was a open forum where one could express one's ideas.
 
Just spitballing here, but maybe/possibly there were bigger air pockets for warm air in between the knitted yarn compared to the fleece used in the comparison.

OwenM - jackknife is no troll, he is a regular poster over on the Traditional subforum.
 
I don't know any scientific basis to what is better or how much heat you lose from somewhere on your body...I do know that I have found wool to keep you warmer than other materials when it is wet,either through sweat, rain or snow, or sea spray. I haven't found anything that keeps my feet warmer when lobstering than wool socks, and only a polartec Grundens pullover that is windproof is warmer than having a wool sweater under my sweatshirt or raincoat. At $100 a whack though, I only have 1 and the rest of the time it is layers of clothing to keep my core warm.

I like thin fleece better though because there is more freedom of movement...getting banged around on a boat all day takes its toll, constant exposure to the wind does as well, and fighting clothing to get work done wears you down more than you'd think...sometimes high-tech outdoor fabrics are more than one can afford though and wool is an less expensive alternative and a good standby...


ETA:
OwenM - jackknife is no troll, he is a regular poster over on the Traditional subforum.

^ This
 
Mountain Hardwear, Woolrich, Filson and others make some good stuff that is 50/50 wool/synthetic or 100% wool.
I have a Filson sweater that is midweight and really a nice one. It wasn't cheap, but it's the real deal.
 
I don't have any sweaters left. Too bulky, not warm enough. I tossed them out, gave them away, and now rely on fleece pull overs and zip ups.

oh, and I'm another geezer. I have been bumming around in the woods for 60+ years now. :D
 
As for me being a troll, Sorry, I was under the impression that this was a open forum where one could express one's ideas.
Yep, and when you throw in blatant misinformation, plus take a shot at a reputable manufacturer while doing so, I can express mine, too.
Polartec makes a variety of high quality, purpose-driven materials, but, like the forum you posted your dismissal of them in, they are geared toward active outdoor pursuits.
 
I smell a government conspiracy!
Troll%2BHunter%2Bposter%2B1%2Blarge.jpg


Looks like informed opinion to me, what he said made sense but I am not a scientist either so I guess my opinion is also invalid.
 
Grew up before fleece
Hiked the wet and windy English Hills in woolly sweaters and canvas anoraks

I now use both wool and fleece
Wool is heavier and bulkier to pack

Wool when damp feels warmer, but I hate wool when wet
I find it heavy smelly and impossible to dry, and hard to wash

I love fleece when wet, easy to wring dry and air, and easy to throw in to a washer

Cost?
Fleece for a $25 in polarguard, but not brand names
Not warm enough?
Get another one the next size up and layer
 
I used to wear wool n cold late season hunts. I was young and thought it was the best insulation between inner and outer layers available. I think fleece is great when there is no wind and can be added to a layer system in moderately cold weather. I have
discovered Snugpak products to be the best product in real nasty cold and have found nothing that can compare to keep me warm when it's bitter cold.
 
I'm getting away from fleece as well. It seems that even a light cotton sweater is more comfy than a fleece. Fleece seems either too cold(wind), too hot, or too clammy. What's been working for casual hikes while traveling with the wife is merino wool base, cotton shirt and cotton sweater. Of course I don't do cotton when it's wet but it's worked well enough for me to start eyeing wool over another fleece for next season.
 
I usually layer up with a thin wool sweater, then a fleece, then a jacket. I find that sweaters are too drafty for me to wear alone, but they create a nice breathable layer between yourself and the fleece. This setup is what I wear during the winter, and I sometimes work in the Northwest Territories where temperatures sit at -40*C, and never had a problem. I guess in the end, it's whatever you find most comfortable.
 
Try Cabelas wool sweater with Windshear best of both worlds. The only reason i gave mine away is it got washed and shrunk gave it to my daughter she still uses it.
 
I bought a heavy oil wool sweater a couple years ago at the local goodwill,I put it away and never wore it. Then a month ago I was reading an outdoor thread about wool and they kept talking about a sweater made by Peter Storm in the 70's, and what a great sweater it was. Someone downloaded a pic and I thought "that's my sweater". I went and looked at it and sure enough that's what it was. Now I like it again..I guess they are semi-legendary or something:confused: Anyway it is a really nice sweater but it's so thick you really can't wear much over it...
 
I never made any claims to a scientific test, just a post about my impressions of trying fleece stuff vs the old school knitted sweaters. I'm not a scientist, just a retired machinist with a lifetime of outdoors experience to draw on. So far, it seems to me, and as I said, YMMV, the knit yarn type of sweater seems to trap more air and give more warmth than this new style fleece stuff they sell. Both my wife and I have tried the fleece stuff, and it just does not seem as warm and cozy feeling as a sweater. As for me being a troll, Sorry, I was under the impression that this was a open forum where one could express one's ideas.
jacknife, hey,..........................I've got no opinion on the troll thing either way. Even when I'm wasted I do try to pick my words advisedly, so 'till such time as I make a flat out accusation to the contrary recognize that I am distancing myself from any notions of trolling...........................As for what else I wrote I'd be disappointed if in any way it was taken to contain any element of needle..............On the heat loss from the head thing you were just wrong, no biggie. All of us have been and will be again. As I see it the point of us all turning up here to hook up to the “hive mind” is to reduce the incidences of that. If I didn't think I could be corrected and shown to be wrong from time to time I would be a hell of a lot less inclined to read forums than I am............................Addressing the sweater thing specifically, I suppose I could have sounded all “science” by using the “control of variables” thing. To me it was just the shortest way of conveying what I believed to be a gap that was wide open to massive misinterpretation. I'll illustrate with this analogy. Suppose some bloke here declares that the cotton gaberdine combat jacket he has just bought was at least as windproof or even actually superior in that regard to the Pertex shell he was using. So far so good, that's his testimony and he is entitled to make it. But if in fact he has worn *5 such gaberdine jackets on top of each other to achieve that effect, then we might reasonably challenge him as to the fact that he isn't really comparing like things. And most importantly, some enthusiastic but lacking in knowledge kid isn't going to race off to the shop for a gaberdine windproof that he believes to be better than Pertex after reading stuff people have written here. Your testimony about sweaters versus fleece without taking weight into account were exactly like that and really needed to be ironed out for the benefit of the collective. There's no more to what I wrote than that mate.
 
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