Switchblade arrests

F

Firewalker 42

Joined
Aug 13, 2005
Messages
6
Greetings all. I saw the discussion on another thread about prosecutions for having a switchblade. I've got several that I enjoy but have gotten more cautious about carring them given their illegality almost everywhere in the US. (All the ones I have are double action so that on initial examination they appear to be manual folders.)My question is this: has anyone ever heard of someone being arrested for carrying a switchblade when they were doing nothing else illegal or suspicious to otherwise attract LEO attention. In other words any examples of an overall law abiding citizen being arrested and prosecuted for nothing more than having a switchblade. Thanks for any feedback.
 
Yes.

In two of my cases the defendants were stopped for "loitering". In other words they were standing out in front of a strip mall.

In one case the defendant was stopped for driving with a burned out head light.

In one case the defendant was walking home from work.

In a upcoming case the two co-defendants were riding their bicycles home from work and were stopped for not having proper headlights turned on.

In all the cases the defendants gave the knives to the LEO when asked if they had knives on them. And in each case the knives were NOT switchblades.

None of these is what I would call criminal behavior.
 
Coming from the point of view of someone who works around a lot of cops, the police don't arrenst people for doing nothing. There's a reason so many states weapons laws are so open to interpretation, it's to allow for discression. Cops use that discresion when someone is being a dick at a traffic stop for instance.

I was in TN training at one point and heared about how the instructor (a local leo) asked a fellow student there why he wasn't carrying his handgun to which he responded "i don't have a permit and i don't know how the police would feel about that." The instructor then drove him around the entire county with him asking every cop if they cared. The universal answer was "go right ahead, as long as you don't use it on me"
 
So, being offensive at a traffic stop is justification for an arrest for an otherwise lawfull item?

Or is being polite an excuse for breaking the law so long as the LEO lets you get away with it?

And BTW, if LEOs did not arrest people for doing nothing then I would not be spending so much of my time in court proving these people were doing nothing.
 
victory said:
Yeah, but that's also the PRK. We're talking about here in the united states.
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That's a pretty ignorant response. :rolleyes:

I'm not saying I agree with CA's knife restrictions, but one positive thing that can be said about them is that they're actually pretty well defined. Compare this to many other states where it's incoherent gibberish or extremely vague (or both).

The cops in CA aren't any different than cops in any other state. Unfortunately, cops don't know every law in the book, they're not lawyers, and they're not judges. I don't begrudge them the job they do either. They're out there trying to keep us safe. Sometimes innocent people get caught up in the mix. I'm just glad people like R.W. Clark, Jim March, and Benard Levine are out there to fight the right fight.
 
R.W.Clark said:
So, being offensive at a traffic stop is justification for an arrest for an otherwise lawfull item?

Or is being polite an excuse for breaking the law so long as the LEO lets you get away with it?

And BTW, if LEOs did not arrest people for doing nothing then I would not be spending so much of my time in court proving these people were doing nothing.
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No, being a prick at a traffic stop makes cops want to nail you for anything they can find since they can't nail you for being a headache. You may consider this an unfortunate reality, but when it comes to minor offences, it's more about how you look and act than what the law is.

I find most people arrested for "doing nothing" are usually getting arrested for not keeping their mouths shut. Not saying it's right, i'm saying that's what happens. If you get hauled in for an "illegal knife" that isn't illegal or is a "grey area", it's an inconvenience to you. The resulting paperwork in an inconvenience (albeit much smaller) to the cop. How much of a pain in the ass you are often can tip the scale in favor of being vindictive.
 
Well, I don't have a point of view from "being around" a bunch of cops. My only point of view was from being a Federal Law Enforcement Officer, so I am sure you have a much better handle on the mind of cops then I.

As an actual LEO, any LEO who would arrest someone for an otherwise legal knife just for not passing the "a-hole test" is a bad cop.
 
R.W.Clark said:
Well, I don't have a point of view from "being around" a bunch of cops. My only point of view was from being a Federal Law Enforcement Officer, so I am sure you have a much better handle on the mind of cops then I.

As an actual LEO, any LEO who would arrest someone for an otherwise legal knife just for not passing the "a-hole test" is a bad cop.
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As a federal LEO, did you job include traffic stops and dispersing loitering youths outside the local 7-11? Yes, you stand in a position to make a judgement about police ethics and you have done so.

I think that rates pretty low on the scale of corruption. Besides, with such vauge laws in all these states (by your own admission a small piece of material like a detent can mean the difference between a legal and illegal knife) can you blame them? A cop arresting someone for what he knows is a legitimately legal knife (like a leatherman or swiss army knife) is one thing, but for a "tactical folder" that they are unfamilliar with? Especially from the pocket of some punk who just mouthed off to them? I don't see the problem.

I carry a collapsable baton for self defense occasionally, knowing full well that under the vauge laws in PA a police officer could make an issue about being "a device capable of inflicting bodily harm" and bring me in. However, i carry it with absolute confidence that the police are likely to not make an issue of it since i am an upstanding citizen with a clean record who is polite and courteous with them. that's the reason i never get traffic tickets either. Showing respect to athority figures where respect is due always pays off.

Back to the original question, i see no point in carrying a switchblade, generally they're no faster than any other folding knife and at least you'll have the defense that it's a legal or a "grey area" if you somehow manage to get into trouble.
 
victory said:
I think that rates pretty low on the scale of corruption. Besides, with such vauge laws in all these states (by your own admission a small piece of material like a detent can mean the difference between a legal and illegal knife) can you blame them? A cop arresting someone for what he knows is a legitimately legal knife (like a leatherman or swiss army knife) is one thing, but for a "tactical folder" that they are unfamilliar with? Especially from the pocket of some punk who just mouthed off to them? I don't see the problem.
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What about a person who's doing absolutely nothing wrong, and a cop is harassing them? I use the word "harass" because if the person isn't doing anything wrong, that's harassment. Otherwise I'd call it something else. I'd be annoyed. And try as I might, I couldn't guarantee that I'd be completely cordial. Should a law-abiding citizen be forced to submit to the whims of a cop who's on the rag?

Everybody has their good days and bad days. I'm no statistician, but I'd venture to guess that it's about half and half when a person is arrested on a BS charge that it's because the suspect is disagreeable or the cop is having a bad day. Don't forget that there's two sides to every story (and quite often, they're both wrong).

Showing respect to athority figures where respect is due always pays off.
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And if respect is not due? Are we supposed to bend over and take it anyway? I make no implications that I'm some sort of freedom fighter, but I know my rights and I know the law. If I'm ever in a situation where I have to get assertive about my rights, I will. When you cease to fight for your rights, you no longer have any.
 
Planterz said:
What about a person who's doing absolutely nothing wrong, and a cop is harassing them? I use the word "harass" because if the person isn't doing anything wrong, that's harassment. Otherwise I'd call it something else. I'd be annoyed. And try as I might, I couldn't guarantee that I'd be completely cordial. Should a law-abiding citizen be forced to submit to the whims of a cop who's on the rag?

Everybody has their good days and bad days. I'm no statition, but I'd venture to guess that it's about half and half when a person is arrested on a BS charge that it's because the suspect is disagreeable or the cop is having a bad day. Don't forget that there's two sides to every story (and quite often, they're both wrong).
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A lot of people like to misuse the term harassment. Look at the examples above: loitering, blown headlight, improper safety equipment. All these were laws that were being broken and i'm willing to bet these people claimed they were being harassed. Police stop suspicious people and those guilty of minor infraction because a good portion of the time a blown headlight or loitering results in finding something more. A police officer i often work with spent a few hours by a hall that was being rented for a party pulling over every car that rolled through the stop sign. He ended up making 4 arrests for outstanding warrants over the course of 3 hours. I'm sure there were some people complaining about being "harassed" by the cops. I know for a fact that the ones who did were generally the ones with the warrants.

I've been pulled over a few times for "driving a suspicious vehicle" and for "equipment checks" and guess what i did? Complied with the officer, did everything i could to make him feel comfortable and let him know i understood why it's neccecary to stop suspicious vehicles late at night and thanked him for keeping my neighborhood safe by doing so. Every time the cop thanked ME and i've even got waves from the guys next time they spotted my car.
 
Victory, you have no clue what you are talking about.

Loitering on private property (a strip mall) is not a crime. Walking home from work is not a crime. Using the law to settle a grudge or perceived slight is always wrong.

Using your power in such manner is abuse under color of authority.

I doubt any of this is getting through to you at all. You seem very much the type that the police are always right and the defendants are always wrong. Well, I am happy to tell you that I have a large, and growing larger, list of cases where the officers were proved to have been in the wrong. Those are cold hard facts presented by a court of law, not just your view of the world based on your "hanging out with cops".
 
All due respect to "Victory" in my years of making arrest I have never been able to make three arrest with four hours especially for outstanding warrants !!! One arrest takes you off patrol for hours, so I have to question the story you refer too!! I have seen officers do several wrongs including stating that a legal knife was dislayed in a meancing manner so as to make it illegal by actions taken not by definition. Those who do that perjury them selves.
 
tom19176 said:
Opps it was four arrest in three hours....FAR MORE UNBELIEVEABLE !!!!!!
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Not when there's more than 1 cop there and about 400 minority youths in colors at a party.
 
tom19176 said:
Opps it was four arrest in three hours....FAR MORE UNBELIEVEABLE !!!!!!
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We're talking more than 1 cop with about 400 minority youths in colors at a party. All the stops were his however and 1 car was responsable for half the warrants.
 
Under federal law there is only one type of person allowed to legally carry a switchblade. A "one armed' man may legally carry this type of knife in the U.S. I can't remember the exact citation of the federal code but I will find it and post later. I won a steak dinner for two from one of my fellow FBI employee buddies on this very issue. He said no way, so he called the local field office and had them research it while we ate dinner. When the answer came back I handed him the $80.00 bill for dinner.

Keith
 
I should have added that a one-armed man is also the only person that can legally "import" and carry a switch-blade knife.

Keith
 
Federal law may not mandate the legallity of carry in seperate states. The Federal Gov only has the power to control interstate commerce and US importation. Hence the name Federal Switchblade Interstate Commerce Act.
 
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