Sword Idenfitcation Need help!

M

mechwarrior_bob

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Jul 31, 2011
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Not quite sure what this is, I found it in my father's basement, he says it's from a relative that fought in WWI, I think it's german and from the very basic google search I did, it seemed close to a Prussian/Bavarian cavalry sword. Thanks for the help!
The only marking is just above the hilt and it's just a number "77933"
I also have a bayonet no idea what it is though.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/813/sword001.jpg/
 
Have any better pictures? I think the bayonet is a Japanese Arisaka. I can't tell what the saber is without better photos.
 
That scabbard looks very similar to a WW2 Japanese katana-like sword i have(I don't want to call it a katana in case it has a more accurate name). Yours could be an officer's saber. O.o I'm no expert, however, there are clear similarities. Maybe Japanese makers used European designs on their own swords after adopting Western culture.
 
Those were my thoughts as well. The Japanese had sabers for police officers and parade usage during WW2, if I remember correctly. Perhaps for a few other circumstances as well.
 
That's actually a Chinese red army saber, if I remember correctly. Here's a photo of another one.

KS-03-Cavalry.jpg
 
It's not a sword designation I'm tremendously familiar with other than being able to give a general i.d. of it. So unfortunately I haven't the foggiest clue what the markings mean. I know that there are replicas of these on the market, as well, so that further complicates things. As far as swords go, though, they're not very old.
 
alright. I don't think it's a replicate as, according to relatives, it was brought over by my great uncle who was stationed in Japan during the occupation. Yeah it's not old I don't mind though I have no mind to sell it.

Thanks again for your help!
 
Oh I mean in terms of digging up concrete examples. However, given that based on my recollection that it's a Chinese sword...not Japanese...I'd be a little suspect of the "came from Japan" story. If it did come from Japan then it came from China first.


Again, I may be totally off the mark, but from discussions I've seen in the past, that's what it looks like to me. :)
 
Nope, it is clearly a type 32 Japanese cavalry trooper sword.

http://home.earthlink.net/~steinrl/civilian.htm

The Chinese version is chunkier, plastic gripped (originally so) and completely od green.

http://www.faganarms.com/chinesecavalrytrooperssword.aspx

Grab these photos while they are up, as they are amongst the best shown in recent years. Lynn Thompson was selling these in magazine ads before Cold Steel was what it is now. There are quite a few floating around and easy to distinguish because of the overall green, plastic and chunkier build. The Japanese type 32 is not as common on the market as it once was and desire seems to be going up. Shiloh relics had sold one recently minus its latch for $145, such the deal! They still range well below $500 on any given day. There are, of course, the Ebay crap for basically the cost of shipping.

A little serious research can go a long way, even without books.

I am not much of a bayonet scholar but it could as well be Japanese,for an Ariska rifle (homework for some other day or person)

Cheers

GC
 
Lee Bray said:
Type 32 had a finger loop inside the guard. This sword doesn't.
Click to expand...

Hi Lee,

Is the scabbard of the 1886(?) different as well? the leather loops disappear pretty easily over time. Stein's type 25 notes are remarkably different than this. Do you mean 1896?

Were these ever fielded as artillery arms? The Shiloh one was labeled so but otherwise a type 32 just minus its latch.

Cheers

GC
 
How may we further confuse the issue? ;) Chuck from A2A writes on these

Japanese Cavalry Trooper's Saber Pattern 1899 (aka Type 32), circa 1899 through WWII; machine made blades with serial numbers on the blade ricasso and scabbard throat. Steel hilt and on later variants the back strap is checkered as are the wood grips. There is usually a leather finger loop on the inside of the guard, but this is usually missing from examples when found.

It is very similar to the Type 25, circa 1892, the main difference being the Type 25 has a brass hilt and plain wood grip. The blades have a long, wide fuller running the full the entire length.

The scabbards are steel with a single hanger suspension ring.

These are very commonly mislabeled as 1886 cavalry trooper's sabers (as found in Fuller and Gregory's Military Swords of Japan 1868-1945). Recent research has shown this to be erroneous.

Cheers

GC

I can only suggest what I see related by those that do study these and what I have absorbed (probably regarded as a lot of nonsense by some
 
horseclover said:
These are very commonly mislabeled as 1886 cavalry trooper's sabers (as found in Fuller and Gregory's Military Swords of Japan 1868-1945). Recent research has shown this to be erroneous.
Click to expand...

As that was my source book, I'll bow out of this one. ;)
 
To tell the truth, as much good information there is in older titles I often can only shake my head as more and more information comes to light. I am more a student of American swords from the revolution to the civil war and even fairly recent (the past decade) publications are quickly being eclipsed as more examples and information is tied together. At the same time, there are sometimes pearls of truth in publications before the internet that go widely ignored or misrepresented.

Stein's was a very early bookmark for me and I'm sure I could still spend days reading there and not find it all as available to read. The basic information saved me many hundreds/thousands of dollars on early interest and available katanaesque swords. I should have ordered from Michael Bell when the interest and money were in my hand during the 1990s. ;)

I buy books for my own niche and go "Garrrrr" they don't know either or "that's just completely wrong". In the end, the next book or example lurks. I imagine nihon-to hunting/study is much the same.

Cheers

GC
 
Thanks for chiming in on this one, Horseclover--I was hoping you would. Goodness knows that reliable information with this particular subset of Euro-influenced Asian swords is rather sparse.
 
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