Sword Identification P2

[bandrfirearms]

Hi guys, here are the other swords. Hope you can help with the identification. I have more pictures if needed. Thanks, Brett bandrfirearms@yahoo.com

 

[Hesparus]

They appear to be (top to bottom:
the same yataghan as before
a shamshir
a talwar
another talwar
a type 98 shin gunto

- Chris

 

[bandrfirearms]

They appear to be (top to bottom:
the same yataghan as before
a shamshir
a talwar
another talwar
a type 98 shin gunto

- Chris

Hi Chris,

Thank you for the rapid response. Do any of these hold value or are they run-of-the mill in terms of collectability?

Thanks,
Brett

 

[Hesparus]

I honestly don't know anything about value, except for the gunto — these were produced in very high numbers and are pretty low quality. There is some value but not a whole lot. The rest are very cool, but I have absolutely no idea what they're worth.

- Chris

 

[DAGuertin]

Nice yataghan mounted in bone and coral, likely 1800 - 1850. A kilij-bladed shamshir, c. 1750 - 1800, followed by a rather unusual tulwar c. 1850 - 1900, a very nice tulwar c. 1750 - 1800, And finally, a katana signed "31" in WWII Shin Gunto koshrae. This is not likely to be a traditionally made blade, but it would have to be studied in- hand. I would need better photos to value any, since a plain blade could be $150, and either damascus or wootz would bring it double or triple that... The katana has the potential to be worth the most; from $500 - $5,000 +

 

[bandrfirearms]

Nice yataghan mounted in bone and coral, likely 1800 - 1850. A kilij-bladed shamshir, c. 1750 - 1800, followed by a rather unusual tulwar c. 1850 - 1900, a very nice tulwar c. 1750 - 1800, And finally, a katana signed "31" in WAIT Shin Gunto koshrae. This is not likely to be a traditionally made blade, but it would have to be studied in- hand. I would need better photos to value any, since a plain blade could be $150, and either damascus or wootz would bring it double or triple that... The katana has the potential to be worth the most; from $500 - $5,000 +

. I sent you an email. I have many many pics!

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Doesn't look like a shamshir to me--note the swell and back edge at the tip. Looks more like a subtle Turkish kilij. Also the "tulwar" pictured below it with the broad blade and heavy fullers would typically be classified as a tegha.

 

[DAGuertin]

Point taken on the kilij. ;-) Slightly unusual form for me, but I'll give you that one. I opted for 'tulwar of unusual form,' since Tegha I find tend to be even broader, and much more strongly curved. A very interesting piece, none the less!

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

The line between tulwar and tegha can be a bit blurry at times, I give you that! There are two kinds of tegha that I'm aware of--the very broad and heavily curved variety usually referred to as an "executioner's tegha", and the "fighting tegha" which has a comparatively narrow blade with varying degrees of curvature. I consider that piece to be of the latter variety due to the extremely broad blade (for a tulwar, at least!) but a strong case could be made for classifying it as a "unusually broad tulwar" as well.

Then there are all of the Indo-Persian pieces out there that don't match ANY clear class! It's a very confusing area of arms/armor study, especially as many styles and methods of manufacture remained popular for hundreds of years with little change making dating difficult.

 

[Luis G.]

Can you please post pictures of these areas with best of quality possible.

Nakago, entire length no koshirae both sides.
Habaki, all sides (front sides back) as well as the seams with a "top" shot.
Kissaki (point), both sides, different angles if possible.

Lastly a shot with heavily flour scent lighting as well as flash on the blade.

The nakago will let us know the smith if it's signed, so far the markings look weird. No mei is seen.
No real shot of the kissaki so we cannot see crisp lines of a kissaki as well as proportions. This is one of the biggest signs of craftsmanship.
the habaki is also a fast way to see if it is real or valuable. The Japanese use a red copper for their habakis most of the time and if the blade was worth anything it should be fitted uniquely to that katana or we will find out if it was just one of the typical Type 98 katana's worth $300- up to $800~ I would say from the pictures

The heavy lighting and flash shot will reveal the hamon, and hopefully some activities so see if it was clay tempered or just mass produced.

 

[DAGuertin]

It's signed 31, as I said. Not promising as far as being traditionally made, but without a hands-on inspection, it's impossible to say. I've seen stranger things on *star stamped* Rikugun Jumei Tosho blades with Hozon papers... The habaki won't tell us much in this case, since the blades were forged to tight standards in order to get them into the field as fast as possible. Just no telling so far...

 

[Luis G.]

It's signed 31, as I said. Not promising as far as being traditionally made, but without a hands-on inspection, it's impossible to say. I've seen stranger things on *star stamped* Rikugun Jumei Tosho blades with Hozon papers... The habaki won't tell us much in this case, since the blades were forged to tight standards in order to get them into the field as fast as possible. Just no telling so far...

If it does not have a mei, given the nakago looking like someone tampted with it I would bet money on it not being traditionally made. Most if not all traditionally made guntos whether factory made or hand forged would more then likely come with a mei.

Actually a habaki would tell us a number of things, for one the tight tolerances you speak of were about as open as a Chinese forge pumping out $20 swords. Secondly the habaki would have likely been cast out of brass or inferior material to the red copper used for genuine traditionally made habakis. There would also be openings in the habaki and blade fit.

As I said this could be $400-$800 given there is no signature and unknown clay tempering. If we could confirm at least Clay tempering, it may push the swords price closer to the $500-$600 range. The pictures I ask for are to figured out if this blade will be worth taking for appraisal, chances are due to the lack of mei and lack of signs that it has been cut down it will likely fit the $400-$500 area.
If it's traditionally made (which all signs so far point to not), then depending on the hamachi and munemachi as well as entire blade condition/kissaki it could be worth a lot or be considered tired and could be worth relatively little. A polisher may be able to tell you more about the blade, perhaps even age/school of smithing/sometimes even the smith.