Sword-making newbie using O1, considering other steels?

S

Starstrafe

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Feb 26, 2023
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Hi all, first time posting here. Ive made 2 swords over the past 2 years with some VERY ghetto backyard accommodations; im talking a pile of bricks with fire happening inside, a cutout pvc pipe with vegetable oil, some flat bars of O1 and a 50-y.o bastard file. They both came out alright, reasonably flexible, only minor warpage... But now im thinking of upgrading my output quality, and i've been hearing plenty about how O1 is potentially too brittle for sword-making.

Now the two swords ive made aren't exactly whippy little fencing folis; The first is a chunky, crude thing with a short ~ 1cm bevel, over an inch wide, 3/16" thick, 3ft long. Heated to a low glow, oil-quenched, tempered over the hot coals at who-knows-what temp. I havent' dared to test it's durability against a brick like i did with a prior piece of test metal, but it definitely flexes, and it's crude design leaves almost no room for fractures at the tang (it's literally wider in the handle than in the blade). The second blade is only somewhat more sophisticated.

Now here's the thing: I'm weighing the value of switching steels or staying with what's familiar. I hear 1095 is a popular sword steel, but more risky to quench without proper equipment. Heard of 1084, but it's in short supply around here. Is it viable to stick with O1 for swords? Or am I invariably making flimsy, breakable stuff? Have i potentially bypassed some of it's shortcomings by making thicker blades? Basically, how much of a big deal is this? Im not shy about doing things imperfectly, but if i ever get around to selling these things, i'd prefer that they didn't shatter on someone's cutting target stuand, lol.
 
Welcome Starstrafe. Fill out your profile so we know where you live and a bit about you.
I'm going to move this to Shop Talk where there are many more sword makers.

There is a lot about your swords that may be an issue. With no way to know the temperatures the HT was done at and no hardness testing it is hard to say if they are even hard at all. Does the edge skate a regular file?

Second, flex has nothing to do with hardness or a good HT. Flex is governed by the Modulus of Elasticity which doesn't change with HT. What determines flex is thickness and geometry.

O-1 isn't a bad steel for a sword if it is HTed right, but there are better ones. 1095 would not be my choice at all.
You want a lower carbon steel like 1075/1080/1084. Steels with vanadium and a little chromium would be good. 80CrV would be a very good sword choice with your backyard equipment. You want to temper a sword a good bit lower than a knife to increase the toughness. Rockwell 48-50is not uncommon. Some folks with very good equipment temper them higher, but they have a lot of experience and thousands in equipment, plus the proper steel for their sword type.

I am sure you will get a lot of advice in this thread, some of it may be a bit harsh, but you will get it from folks who make swords all the time, and listening will be learning.
 
Here is an internet list of good sword steels and their content:
Steel TypeClassMaterial Composition
1045Medium Carbon SteelC 0.45%, Mn < 1%
1055Medium Carbon SteelC 0.55%, Mn < 1%
1060Medium/High Carbon SteelC 0.60%, Mn < 1%
1075High Carbon SteelC 0.75%, Mn < 1%
1090High Carbon SteelC 0.90%, Mn < 1%
1566Spring SteelC 0.65%, Mn 1-1.15%
5160Spring SteelC 0.60%, Mn 0.95%, Cr 0.80-1.05%
5166Spring SteelC 0.66%, Mn 0.95%, Cr 0.80-1.05%
52100Spring SteelC > 1.00%, Mn 0.4%, Cr 1.45%
9260Spring SteelSi 1.40-2.00%, Mn 0.65-0.85%, Cr 0-0.65%
65MnSpring SteelC 0.7%, Mn 1%, Si 0.17-0.37%

Some of these are not readily available, but the chart shows that the norm is lower carbon and plenty of manganese. It left out 1080 and 1084 for some reason, but they are quite popular.
 
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
There is a lot about your swords that may be an issue. With no way to know the temperatures the HT was done at and no hardness testing it is hard to say if they are even hard at all. Does the edge skate a regular file?
Click to expand...
Yes it does skate, tested that pretty early on. Still scratches, but not as much as the soft tang.
And maybe i'm using bad terminology: by "flex" i meant that it was def springier than the raw piece after HT.

And your answer of "not bad, but there are better" is sort of what i was looking for: like i said, i don't mind making some mistakes this early on, and since i doubt that historic blacksmiths had the entire periodic table on their side, i'm under the impression that i don't need to nerd out too much about steel types just yet. (though i welcome being proven wrong) So i do look forward to hearing other's takes on O1 swords.

heh, And i am not opposed to harsh critique, this first sword is basically a giant clumsy kitchen knife.
 
My understanding is 1095 is close to 18th/19th century swords, older ones are more like 1070 to 1040. Although the idea of a steel specification when going that far back is kinda meaningless
If it were me i would use 5160. Swords want the toughness more than hardness, especially since they won't be used against actual armour these days
 
Like D DevinT said. Hard to beat 5160 for toughness and ease of HT... That would be my choice personally.

Then again, I've never made a sword so, there's that...
 
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