Sword Points and Piercing

T

Tonie Nichols

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Apr 8, 2004
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Over the years I've looked at the points on different styles of broadswords and wondered why they seemed so obtuse. The points seemed to be good for not much of anything other than being a place to end the blade of the sword.

So the other day I had a piece of flat stock I was beveling on my sander just for practice and I ended up with a very rounded point on a double edged blade. This was not a piece of tempered steel, just raw old flat stock about an inch wide, seven inches long and about one eighth inch thick. The edges were just about sharp enough to tear through paper. The point was not sharp enough to break skin without considerable effort.

As I walked by a horizontal stabbing target I had made out of yoga mats and about a half inch of duct tape I took an absent minded reverse grip stab with my semi-sharpened steel. To my absolute shock this somewhat blade sunk into the target a good two inches; almost half the length of the blade.

Thinking that I'd hit a weak point in the roll, I tried twice more in other sections. Each time it was the same.

So I began to wonder, just how efficient were those broadswords at thrusting?
 
Nice! From what I've read I've seen many a reference made to running folks through with broadswords. Look at period fighting manuals with broadsword and buckler and you'll see a few plates showing the use of the thrust. :cool:

08.jpg
 
European medieval swords came in various forms designed to cut, thrust or cut & thrust. Just because a sword was designed primarily with the cut in mind won't preclude it from making do with a well placed thrust against some soft spot.
 
Look at some of the bayonets with 'chisel tips'. There's no point on them at all but they will certainly run someone through.
 
If you can manage to stick a flathead screwdriver 6" into a tree, surely a broadsword will puncture an opponent. :D

I've said it before, but... steel hard, flesh soft. </Frankenstein Monster Voice>
 
The late Hank Reinhardt discusses this very issue in his book. He tested the penetration of a "viking" style sword, and found the performance to be very good. It was his conjecture that the curved edges at the point cut though the material, rather than forcing a separation as would an estoc (or similar).
 
In Bill Bagwell's book on Bowie knives he says that a proper Bowie will have a blade tip that is somewhat less than a needle point--a blade with sharpened clip will have a point that cuts in, rather than simply piercing.

I also remember Fred Bear's advice to sharpen your broadheads with a chisel point so that they cut on the way in and won't fold up if they hit bone like a needle-pointed head might.
 
If the edges at the tip are sharp, it can cut its way in. If this were not true, then cuts and slashes with a sword's edge would not work. However, I think it's common sense that the pointier the tip is, the easier it will penetrate in a thrust. An awl can penetrate quite easily without any sharpened edges.

The other side of the coin is, if the edges get the least bit dull or rolled for whatever reason, the force required to penetrate in the thrust (with a more rounded point) goes up hugely. When I used to hunt varmints with a knife, this meant the difference between the point easily sliding in, vs. simply refusing to penetrate even if I leaned my weight onto the handle.

I think the reason (or at least the percieved reason) for more rounded/spatulate points on swords primarily meant for cutting can be found in Jean Jacques Perret's works from 1771, where he describes the damascus executioner's sword he made-

It is double-edged and does not have a sharp point. On the contrary it is well-rounded, because a sharp point can get stuck in the vertebrae. Being rounded and well polished, it slides and cuts easily.
Click to expand...
http://pweb.netcom.com/~brlevine/links.htm


FortyTwoBlades-
I'm not as familiar with I.33, but am pretty sure those plates are not depicting thrusts or someone being run through. In the lower image, the man on the right has his opponent's sword hand trapped under his armpit. http://freywild.ch/i33/i33aen.html#01 Though thrusts are used elsewhere in the system so far as I know.
 
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C.S. Graves said:
If you can manage to stick a flathead screwdriver 6" into a tree, surely a broadsword will puncture an opponent. :D

I've said it before, but... steel hard, flesh soft. </Frankenstein Monster Voice>
Click to expand...

Yes, funny voice but true. Okay, maybe it was only 4". But I was really motivated. :D :o

Possum- Great link, thank you, I've never really looked at Levine's site, didn't know he had so much cool stuff.

Thanx all, I appreciate you sharing.
 
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It all has to do with area and pounds per square inch. Even a Sai with a semi blunt tip will impale someone with enough thrust (less than the thrust of the average punch). So back when metal was harder to make and was more labor intensive it would make sence not to have a razor sharp needle point to prevent chips and breaks.. you also had armor to contend with where a super pointy blade would mostlikely be dulled/broken with ease.
 
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