Sword Tool Kit Question?

TOMBSTONE

TOMBSTONE

Joined
Oct 31, 1998
Messages
3,034
Greeting fellow knife & sword nuts! I recently purchased a Cas Iberia Shinto Katana.The cleaning/tool kit it came with has
some items in it that I'm not sure what their function is,and I'm extremely curious.There is a bottle of fluid,which I assume is some type of oil(clove oil)?There is a package of what looks like rice papers,cotton cloths,a few what looks like bamboo pegs,a brass hammer type tool with the other end looks somewhat tapered to a point,and last but not least a satiny type material covered round ball looking thing on a bamboo shaft which looks like some sort of lollipop shape.If someone can tell me what these items pupose or function are,it would be greatly appreciated.Please don't guess,answer only if you know the proper info.Thanks in advance,Ralph
 
Okay what ya received was a maintenance kit that comes standard with the Hanwei factory line.

Basically my suggestion to you is to ignore or get rid of all of it, and you can keep the lil brass hammer.

If you want to get a decent maintenance kit, I suggest you get one through Fred Lohman. I can show you how to use one too if you like, but the stuff that came with the chen sword is basically worthless.

Shinryû.
 
Thanks for the advice.However;The question still remains,what are they and the purpose of each piece.The brass hammer has what function?What does one do with rice paper?
 
I'm tired so I'm not gonna type it all out. I do think there's a listing and description of everything on Rich Stein's website. He's a great guy and his site is one of the best references out there.
http://www.japanesesword.homestead.com

Go there, then go to the main page, look for something called NBTHK sword care guide I think. It should list everything from the choji oil to the uchiko ball and everything.

Just remember that the stuff that comes with Chen is pretty much worthless and I dunno if it's even worthwhile to have one for a Chen sword.

Shinryû.
 
Thanks for the info.I checked out fred's site and the other site for maitenance info.I fail to see any diffence between the tool kit at fred's site and the one that came with my sword.I also detect in the tone and wording in your post that you may not be a fan of Chen blades,which is fine.Everyone has differing opinions,all I can say is that I'm extremly impressed at the quality of the sword that has been produced at that price range with those materials.Unfortunatly,not alot of people including myself, can afford the thousands of dollars cost of a sword from a Japenese maker.Thanks for the help though.
rolleyes.gif

Best Regards,Ralph
 
The real differences are in the quality and types of materials. The stuff in the uchiko ball provided with Chen swords is NOT uchiko. The paper I believe is lower quality and I wouldn't know if I would trust the oil.

And I don't really have anything AGAINST the Chen blades, but I am very very disappointed with the string of marketing lies that were used for a long time. The swords are great for the price, but they aren't something I would buy. I don't have thousands to spend either. But the finish on them is something that does not need a maintenance kit...just put some light gun oil on em and wipe em down regularly.

Shinryû.
 
Robert is correct about the kit not being really worth all that much. The components in it are substandard and the uchiko powder may actually scratch your blade from what I have heard. Robert is also correct when he says that for most purposes of keeping rust off of your blade a little gun oil applied every couple of weeks will do the trick. Make sure you don't put it on too heavy however or you can ruin your saya. If you do cutting and streak up your blade a little bit of fine steel wool should do the trick. I really think that for most purposes these things would work even for the high end custom stuff. The odd little implements are just traditional. I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong.
 
Triton,

"The odd little implements" are not just traditional
smile.gif


Remember that after several hundred years of evolution, the Japanese sword has evolved from a weapon to a piece of art.

The folding and forging of steel, which was a nescessity to purify the steel, became a way to show the style and technique of the bladesmithing. So in a sword, we look for the Jitesu(the forging pattern,and characteristics), and the hammon (hardened edge and activites inside).

To see all that, a good polishing is very very important to bring these out. After maybe 10 or more years of time after the original polishing, the ji may be gone a bit. firstly, the coats of old oil maybe blocking it, or there may be little surface oxidation, not nescessarily stain yet.

The Uchiko (powder bowl) has some very very fine powder of polishing stone inside. It is a very high quality stone called Uchigumori-do. Expensive stone, so the high quality uchiko is not cheap. Put a light coat of the powder evenly on the blade and wipe it out lightly will polish out the light oxidation and bring the beauty inside the blade out again. Traditionally, that powder may even be used to remove blood-stain that will ruin a good blade.

The paper included in the kit should be very high quality, without anything that is harder than the steel(silica grains). It should be prewashed, wrinkled and soft. Remember that, the blade maybe very strong, but the surface finishing is fragile. If you want to cut with the blade, then forget about the polishing altogether.

Don't even use steel wool on an art-sword, modern or antique. A real good polishing will even be the same or even more expensive than the sword itself.

Joe
 
Pretty much everything Joe said was correct.

But the thing about Chen blades is that they are not really "polished" in a traditional sense. They have a machine-finish which is sorta wobbly and a very heavy etch on them, which is apparent by the tremendous amount of discoloration (to the point where the habuchi is darkest, as opposed to lightest which it's supposed to be). With that finish, it makes it easy for people to use the blades because it doesn't have that real beautiful finish of a traditionally polished blade.

When Triton I believe was making the suggestion about steel wool...I think he was talking more non-traditional swords of homogenous steel with hybrid paper/etch polishes. The high end swords with those particular polishes CAN be astoundingly beautiful if done well, but since the finish isn't quite as expensive as the traditional, it gives ya a bit more leeway and a clearer conscience to cut with them because you're not afraid of damaging an enormously expensive polish.

Shinryû.
 
Thanks all for the responses and info.Looking at the supplies with the sword,it appears the paper is a little wrinkled and seems to be fairly soft for rice? paper.It doesn't feel abrasive.The powder seems well powdery white and very fine,as to it being the real authentic powder,I'm not sure how to tell.As to the quality of the oil,I don't know,I think its clove oil and its clear in color.While maybe some may feel the quality of the kit is lesser quality than what they have seen,this may be true,but too me the supplies/tools look of good and well made quality to my eyes,all I wanted to know is what they were for and got a response I didn't ask for until later.I don't have much experience with these type of blades,so its hard for me to make an assesment of the kit.As far as the blade goes,the whole sword to my eyes is a beautiful piece of work,I can't vouch for anyone elses blade,but the polishing on mine is not the least bit "wobbly" As far as what the polishing procedure may be and them using acid to bring up the hamon more visible,again I have no idea what the method is traditional or not or what they do.All I can say is that if someone is looking for a Japenese style blade with a semi-traditional Sword making process,they can do much worse with other blades.I'm sure there are custom makers out there charging huge sums of money for Japenses style blades,that are not made from the so-called traditional methods,yet are not under as much scrutiny as Paul Chen blades seem to come under.There seems to be some people out there that for some reason degrade this mans work,this is not the first time I heard a less than enthusastic response regarding his blades.I don't know what the problem was in the past about any of Cas Iberias sales pitches or "lies".While I don't want someone coming on here and blowing smoke up my A**,telling me my sword is the best made in the world and is going to cut through machine gun barrels,I'm not the type of person that is gonna take someones post as an absolute truth or fact without some reasons or evidence to back it up.Its much to easy to come on a forum spouting that this is good or no good blah,blah,blah.When the great majority of the time, people never even have handled the makers work that they are attacking.I would prefer to see some facts back up peoples opinions,rather than someone just echoeing another persons opinion from another forum without having any real facts or personal exerience. One may spend thousands on a sword and it may not cut better than a Chen sword.If I had the money,I would love to have one made custom direct from Japan,but I'm very pleased with the sword I purchased and it is alot more satisfiying to me than my Marto Stainless Katana I once had.I realize its just natural that people are going to feel they have a superior product based on nothing but the fact that it costs more than somone elses.I guess I had to vent a little,but only because its a trend I've seen in the past relating to knives.A point of comparison,not to start any flames,but just because a Maddog Atak may cost 700.00 dollars does not make it a superior blade than say a 300.00 Randall,the same goes for many other knives and swords.Rant mode off.OH,and sorry for the poorly punctuation in my long post
biggrin.gif

Thanks,Ralph
 
Tombstone, the Paul Chen blades from Bugei and CASI are fine for what they are--entry level blades. For those of us who cannot afford the $2K-5K to get to the next level in quality, or the $5K-to-the-sky for the levels after that, they are great stuff--differential heat treat, relatively authentic looking repro fittings, and a decent handle wrap. They all have a few nits coming out of the factory, one of which is that they ALL have wobbles--I'll bet the shinogi (ridgeline) on yours doesn't run ruler-straight from tip to handle. These little problems are things you learn to live with if you cannot (or will not) shell out the $$$ for genuine nihonto or the nihonto-style blades from Howard Clark, Randal Graham, Michael Bell, etc.

The Chen uchiko is fine to use on the Chen blades because they are not finished to a "traditional" quality, so you aren't damaging the polish of the blade. DO NOT use this uchiko on anything other than a Chen. If, as you say, you want "evidence" that the Chen uchiko is too aggressive for anything other than Chen blades, ask JoeL if you can use some on that nice tanto of his, provided that you will foot the polisher's bill to fix the damage! Traditional polishing on a tanto runs about $60-100 per inch . . . .
 
Joe,I like your tanto,very nice temper line,don't you wish yours was acid etched like mine
biggrin.gif
I'm not trying to compare a 6,000.00 Japanese blade to my Chen blade.In the large difference in price I would expect alot more attention to detail and materials.For me though,I can';t afford the big dollars and this line of swords makes it possible for a person to own a high quality semi-traditional working Katana.If mine doesn't have silk handle wrap,I can live with the cotton wrap.If my blade doesn't have a 2,000 dollar polish,I can deal ith that to.The bottom line is dollar for dollar the Chen stuff is the best deal in Japanese style blade.Thanks all for the replies.Ralph
P.S. Robert just had a birthday,whata you all say to pitching in and buying him a Criswell Katana as a present.I think its one of his favorite blades
biggrin.gif
hehehehe!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top