Tactical or not?

Tankerwolf

Tankerwolf

Joined
Jun 1, 2009
Messages
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It was a toss up to put this in prac/tac or here but I figured it really boils down to survival.


I have been reading posts on various forums where people discuss their SHTF, get home, bug out… bag. It seems half the people like military MOLLE style whereas other like to “not stick out” with normal camping / hiking looking bags.

My question is:
What are your opinions on why you pick the bag you do?
Do you like having MOLLE attachments? Do you not want to look like a target? Is there any basis behind the thought that if someone sees you with a military style bag they think you’ve got good stuff? Do you just go with camo-ish colors on a normal bag? Just random questions I’ve been kicking around as I have both “normal” looking and GI issue and never really thought about what type of target the bag makes you look like. I always assumed that if they are the type of person that’s going to rob you, the bag doesn’t matter. I would like to hear your opinions on the subject. Not really arguing for either side as I can understand both.
 
Tankerwolf said:
Do you like having MOLLE attachments?
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No.

Do you not want to look like a target?
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No, I don't want to look like a target.

Is there any basis behind the thought that if someone sees you with a military style bag they think you’ve got good stuff?
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Yes. And/or it suggests that you might be carrying, in which case see #2.

In short, I see no reason to "look tactical" in situations that are not real tactical situations. There are many situations in which the best "tactic" is to not show your hand unnecessarily.
 
In a bad shtf if you are worried about a military pack being a target I would also think any pack would be a target. Having said that I try not to look tactical or advertise the fact that I am armed when I am out. I think well used surplus might be less tempting than newer high tech stuff because it looks less expensive and the guy carrying it could be a bad ass.
Josh
 
Tankerwolf said:
I would like to hear your opinions on the subject. Not really arguing for either side as I can understand both.
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Mine might be slightly biased....I'm retired Army.

Carried all versions of gear throughout my career...there are literally tuffboxes full of gear in my garage.

When travelling overseas, a simple civilian backpack (Lowe Crag pack) to disappear into the crowds with.

Around town or a week on the road? LBT 82nd pack (pre-MOLLE), a Blackhawk 3DAP (pre-MOLLE) or a 5.11 RUSH 72 (MOLLE covered).
 
I guess this is where the confusion part comes in to play. Wouldn’t you be less likely to be a victim if they thought you were carrying? I.e. cities with loose gun control have lower crime and cities with greater gun control are essentially creating victim zones. If I were a bad guy I would go after the innocent looking hiker before I went after the guy that looks like he’s packing. On the other hand if this is the type of environment you’re in why are you out where people can see you? Wouldn’t it be better to stay out of sight? It just seems like the situations that people describe would constitute “tactical” behavior. I use that word loosely as I feel tactical refers to actions more than gear.
As I understand your post you would be on the look normal side of the argument? What would you consider a “real tactical” situation that would require military style gear?
 
If the SHTF socially, everyone carrying any pack, bag, purse, or whatever will be a target. I would think a military ish backpack might make unsavory folks think twice, as they may associate these with guys and gals with a means to fight back. They may also view others carrying regular packs as granola eating nature loving peace freaks and see easy prey. Reality is anything can be different than it seems.
 
As I understand your post you would be on the look normal side of the argument? What would you consider a “real tactical” situation that would require military style gear?
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I try not to advertise, period. I have no need to look "tactical."

And the notion that looking "tactical" might be a deterrent is kind of like believing that the sound of racking a pump gun is a reliable deterrent. Carrying a MOLLE pack won't mean shit to anyone who is serious.

I prefer to remain low-key, do everything I can to avoid/exit situations that require retaliation, and if/when it is the only option left, be prepared to respond unequivocally. That is my SHTF survival strategy.
 
Tankerwolf said:
As I understand your post you would be on the look normal side of the argument? What would you consider a “real tactical” situation that would require military style gear?
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I live near Ft Bragg...everybody in the area either wears or carries camouflage..it blends in out here. The environment dictates, really, considering I would be hesitant to carry ANY military-type gear while visiting family back home in CA.

Now, as a "real tactical" situation? When SHTF, whatever you have handy and are most comfortable "buggin' out" with, by all means, grab it and GTFO! As bad as this sounds, in a survival situation, there are NO "fashion police", only idiots who have no other skill to offer than ridicule.

Case in point?

article-1181998-04F2CA94000005DC-719_634x348_popup.jpg


Taking on the Taliban in pink boxer shorts, t-shirt and flip-flops is not regarded as conventional military uniform. Especially when the shorts declare 'I love New York'. However when Zachary Boyd, 19, was woken up by a Taliban assault on his platoon he only had time to grab his weapon, helmet and body armour before springing into action.
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Smith; I couldn’t agree with you more on your first response but we are talking about after some theoretical SHTF situation. Based off of your second response I think you and I have the same mindset regarding this issue. I totally agree with you that remaining indiscernible is the best option. The disjunction comes in with the statement “anyone who is serious”. It’s a numbers game for the average person and if you can knock down the total threat count then you would be doing good looking like someone that could fight back.

tob: Exactly! When SHTF you grab what works the best for “you”; be it tacticool or subdued. Like I said I can see both sides I just wanted to hear people’s opinions on why they picked the pack that they did.
 
IMO the best emergency backpack (I hate the term "bug out") is a good old 75-85L camping pack. It's ridiculous how much stuff you can cram in there + it's made to be carried comfortably given the amount of weight you're carrying.

Over here in California, the biggest threat are earthquakes. When the big one hits, what I'll need is food, water, and warmth. Pretty much everything that I usually take on a 2 day camping trip, should suffice in an emergency situation.

I think people need to stop worrying about others trying to jack their load. Call me naive but if I ever ran into a situation where somebody needs my food, water, or clothes more than I do.... I'll gladly share. Not everybody out there is selfish and cowardly.
 
Tankerwolf said:
It’s a numbers game for the average person and if you can knock down the total threat count then you would be doing good looking like someone that could fight back.
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I hear you, I just tend to think that there are a number of ways to make it clear that you are someone who will fight back, when the situation calls for it. Wearing a 5.11 pack is only one of them, and in and of itself, arguably not the most effective.

Not criticizing anyone else's approach by any means, just outlining my own.
 
Smith: Yup. I would put standing/walking confident and situational awareness (i.e. letting them know you see them etc…) above the gear any day.
 
(I hate the term "bug out")
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I blame Sandpiper Of California for that. They started selling their "Bugout bag" and I swear, everybody started referring to any backpack as one.

I spent the majority of my career with an "A" bag (ALICE pack), "B" bag (Duffle bag) and a "Go bag" (Carryon size bag)...which later morphed to an Aviators Kit bag to carry our body armor...but never had a bugout bag...until I bought one from S.O.C.

One thing I can tell you, from experience: MOLLE packs absolutely STINK when moving through draws, scrub brush and lowhanging trees. They also "attach" themselves to every exposed anchor hook, tentpole, tentstake, coathook or doorknob you might brush up against.

For walking the AT or PACRIM Trail? MOLLE all the way. Search & Recovery in Yosemite? Smooth as possible.
 
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Well, all this is nice conversation.

However, in a real SHTF scenario if you are carrying *any* bag you will be a target for gangs/hoodlums. It doesn't matter about "blending in" or whether your pack is tacticool/MOLLE/whatever. It's *all* about whether you appear to have something worth stealing.

I've lived in different countries of the world - outside of "protection" and if you have something that looks worth taking and you look like 'easy' prey you're going to have a confrontation. It is that simple.

So, to answer the OP's question: I EDC whatever bag will carry my gear comfortably. Currently i have an OD green pack with MOLLE on it b/c it hauls my EDC gear and photo equipment. Previously i carried a Mountainsmith pack (and it sucked). My next EDC will be a Kelty Redwing 3200/50L.
 
HAVE IT BOTH WAYS !
I use a millitary grade/tactical pack made by camelback that I picked up at a millitary surplus store. BOB, Get Home Bag, SHTF packs whatever the name take more abuse than you might think riding around in a car trunk etc. The durabillity of the millitary packs is very comforting to me. I live just outside Ft Lewis so seeing someone with a millitary pack is pretty common. However I have a blue nylon pack cover I bought at a sporting goods store for a more sheeple friendly appearence. I like having options.
Allan
 
Dunno about Mad Max scenarios but I live in a much more violent culture than most of you do. Feral toe-rags in the 15-25yrs old range are much more likely to have a pop at a weakling that is carrying something that looks new. If it's new and has a Chav label they're going to want it for them, and if it just looks new it has a sale or trade value of about a third its worth. These factors are going to get stuff taxed off you if some climate event or the ilk presents them with an opportunity much more predictably than if a bag has MOLLE doodads. Now, if you look like a builder that has just drunk a bad beer and is on his way home in the certain knowledge he's about to catch his neighbor stuck up his wife....
 
I just got a Kifaru EMR as an "everything bag" I think it will be great for extended stay camping trips, and a SHTF bag. Rite when I got it, I loaded it up with 60lbs of random stuff ..and it was incredibly comfortable for a quick 3 mile walk.
 
Urban Camoflage

Nobody looks at you
Clean used clothing
Gear carried in clean but used bags
Neutral colors
Minimal messages sent, so what you might be carrying, cannot be sensed

Walk well, that will send who you are
Punks are looking for suckers and certain scores
And they will sublimally read to leave you alone
 
I'd have to go with whatever makes you blend in with your surroundings. The pack should match what you would normally wear to that location. If your pack clashes with what you are otherwise wearing it raises eyebrows. Any item that looks out of place should be avoided. It should never look like you are doing anything other than going about your 9-5 routine. Always try to look like the locals and dress to look average in the lowest income area you will travel through.

Examples:
When you are in a small town you'll probably get less attention in a pair of workman's cargo pants with a duffle bag or dusty backpack. When downtown in the business district you should probably have a suit and briefcase or laptop bag or messenger bag. This is of course assuming you can pull off the look. A suit and a gym bag slung over a shoulder would probably also work. Any one of these combinations sends the message, “sheep going about his business”. If your commute takes you through some shady areas you should dress down.

I can't think of too many places outside of a war zone where camouflage gear and an assault packs wouldn't stand out, maybe near a military base. If that is your area of operations then by all means go for that. A college kid with his backpack or messenger bag won't look too out of place in a college district, and a young lady with a baby carriage would not look out of place in a town. I would not carry a large hiking pack in most situations since it communicates that you had time to pack and think. Whatever I take having wheels is a very good thing to have so a bicycle with a parcel rack or something else to carry the load is a real boon.

For my part, if I had to walk out of my place right now (urban environment) I'd probably fill a standard laptop backpack with whatever it will hold and put that inside a suitcase with wheels. Being able to roll it for as long as the terrain is suitable has value, then I’d just grab the backpack and leave the rest. If at all possible I would grab my bike on the way out.
 
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