Taiwan

S

smorgan345

Joined
Mar 8, 2007
Messages
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I bought the SOG Gov Tac, my first SOG. It's the first knife I've bought in a long time, but I was a little concerned / suprised to see the Taiwan stamp on the blade. Years ago, knives marked China or Taiwan were gas station knives and generally of poor quality in my experience (which is limited). I am not saying this product is one of those, I plan to put it to the test and let the product speak for itself. Has anyone had any good or bad experience with these knives? Thanks for any input.
 
Welcome to Bladeforums.

I think these knives have proven to be a horse of a different color.:D

Very well made.



Robbie Roberson ;)
 
Would you have bought it knowingly that it was made in Taiwan?
I can't seem to finger the ONE good reason why anyone would, or wouldn't.
Other than the fact that they cost less or are well made for it's price.
Any takes on this?
 
Taiwan makes very good products if they may use the same high end steel and production.Made in Japan is now the top for a lot of products.Forget about the past, the next invasion is coming.
 
It was, even back in the 1980s. A number of production companies had their knives made in Japan, with no decrease in quality.

Most of the legendary Al Mar knives made when Mr. Mar was still alive and running his company were made in Japan. Good knives can be made in Taiwan if a company like SOG, CRKT, or Cold Steel closely monitors the production.

I remember years ago, Cold Steel introducing their "Black Bear Classic" Loveless copy and it was made in Taiwan. What stood out was Lynn Thompson's extensive write-up explaining why "Made in Taiwan" could still mean it was a good knife at a competitive cost!

...and he was right!

SOG's Daggert is another example. It's a first-rate knife on par with any of the classic designs from the 80s.
 
So what most of you are saying is that, Taiwanese manufactured knives are great/ok/fine/comparable (please take your pick!) in your books; just as long as the products are marketed by a US based company? Which is to say that a good many of you would stay clear of Taiwanese knives marketed under an unfamiliar brandname, especially so if its NOT a US lable? And so therefore are buying these products because they come with an American product guarantee or are govern by existing laws pertaining to consumer protection?
 
I don't know what others will say, but a Taiwanese (or Japanese) manufactured knife can be a well-made product, providing the company having them manufactured maintains a close watch on quality control, the way SOG does.

Every company has to start out somewhere, unfamiliar or not. If they make a good product and market it correctly, people will resond to that, even if it is a new company.

In 1979, a former Gerber employee had the idea of importing high quality knives of his design from Japan. This was at a time when "Made in Japan" was synonymous to "garbage". However, it was immediately clear this company was doing things differently and the knives they imported were very different. These knives set near-custom quality standards for fit and finish and were usually superior in both to conventional American-made products. Al Mar showed the industry it could be done in Asia, if you were kept a close watch on your manufacturers.

A number of other new companies were founded in the 80s with the same concept. Their products gained immediate success, in spite of being from new and unfamiliar brands, because the quality of the knives was self evident. SOG was one of those companies.

Now let's move up a decade or so. The Japanese economy has driven manufacturing costs up, the American dollar is weaker than it used to be, and a new source of high quality, low cost labor had to be found. In 1994, Columbia River Knife and Tool opened its doors bringing in knives from Taiwan.

When they started out, they were as you said, a completely unfamiliar brand. But the quality of their products instantly won them a steady following. Other established manufacturers, seeking to stay competitve, are also having products made in Taiwan.

In 1997, a Taiwanese sword collector named Chen Chao-Po started a company in Manchuria, making reasonably high quality Japanese swords at surprisingly affordable prices. Nobody had ever heard of "Paul Chen" or "Hanwei", but he became an industry fixture overnight. He's the "Al Mar" of our times. Other established companies (like Buck) are already following his lead into China.

I'll make you a prediction. As the value of the dollar declines, some clever entrepreneur is going to do his homework, and start importing very high-quality knives from (gasp!) India or Pakistan. People will be astounded it could be done!

Atlanta Cutlery is already having swords made there and, for a certain customer, their products are decent enough.
 
The country where the plant is physically located makes little difference, it is the process that counts. If that process is controlled and consistent and uses good materials/components, then a good/consistent product will come out.
Many companies use another manufacturer to make their products, one that springs to mind is Hattori. They make knives in Seki Japan under many different brands - some of which you have heard of. The process and product tolerances are what will make the knife good or consistent.
Taiwan has some incredibly modern and well controlled facilities for making products. They make good and cheap, the trick is the compromise...;)
 
Oh, I see! But you know, deep down, I would like to suggest that perhaps it is the workings of the Japanese psyche, or personal subservient attitude towards the natural order of an ancient feudal hierarchy that is still very much in play within Japanese society. This practice has allowed very little or sometimes no room for mistakes or excuses, as any expressed dissatisfaction from above would bring great shame upon the individual (I know, this sounds like a bad samurai movie, but...). And when that happens, the mental pressure of admitting a mistake could bring about depression and perhaps even suicide. I believe the Japanese have developed a self-checking system of being very careful of every approach or action they take. This is seen in their almost artistic approach in carrying out cultural practices - from greetings, manners and overall civic mindedness. They simply cannot allow themselves to be shamed. And this is the one reason why Japanese made products have a very high standard of manufacture. Failure is death!

Taiwan one the otherhand has modernized; and like most chinese businessmen everywhere (no disrespect intended) - have found ways to be efficient in running a business. It's key to success is speed, mainly by cutting down time, re-utilizing/maximizing resources, replicating volumes at a lower cost and especially avoiding mistakes with the use of modern machinery. Being an island hasn't stopped the Taiwanese from expansion because they have gone to the mainland to replicate their success. Nobody's complaining because everyone goes home happy. And that's the entire chain - from entrepreneurs to end-users.

What impact this will bring in the next ten to twenty years is anyones guess. Even cheaper goods? Or the ultimate test of freemarket.
 
GIRLYman,
That's an interesting thought. I have to admit that I would prefere my Daggert II to be made in Seki-Japan, because I admire the Japanese aspiration for perfection, and also theyr tradition in making blades. It does mean something to me if there is Seki-Japan printed on a blade or not.

But I also have to admit that there is absolutely nothing wrong with my Daggert II. It couldn't have been made better in it's quality.

And please keep in mind that also Japan has a high tech industry. It's not that an old Swordmaker would handground the blades for SOG, they come out of a factory like in Taiwan.

As far as the impact on our future is concerned, I think with the globalisation also comes an aproxximation of the living standard. I've got the living example here in the European Union. Since the former Sowiet countrys of eastern Europe joined the EU, the living standard here in Austria goes down. If a business man can find a worker that does the same job for less money, he will employ him (...and produce in Taiwan for example), and this means income will decrease in general because people here still want to have a job. Are cheaper goods really cheaper?
 
RogerRabbit
Exactly! A wider economic gap (between rich and poor) will exist when more people are caught up with the "luxury game" for want of an illusionary higher standard of living with all the trappings of an extravagant life style (This is one reason why there are imitation goods of everything imaginable!). Typically it brings about a higher cost of living; an income which never seems to be enough and leaving little else to speak of but shattered dreams and wasted opportunities.
The numbers of the improvished will continue to rise when jobs become scarce, the job market will continue to become even more competitive once over population increases and indeed threaten to break an already over burden socio-economic structure.
The rich have learnt to be generous by being lavish with other people's money. A lesson we must all learn ie, to save every single cent for a rainy day and treasure family above all. It's obvious that they have no room for strangers in their hearts. We can change that by not buying unnecessarily for a start, then learn to appreciate good value from bad; we can benefit from having a sound traditional quality of life not chained to empty promises driven by greed.
But don't let me stop you from buying more knives. Because such joys makes life worth living!
 
Ive got so many knives from asian countries Taiwan included my gerber mini covert is just crazy nice built like a little tank. My crkt hawk kat also Taiwan also top notch. Got a master blades tanto also Taiwan also top notch. Ive put that poor nice thorugh hell and it still locks up nice and tight zero wobble. Been taken apart 100s of times (did i mention through hell and back?). Dont knock the quality of a asian made knife lets not forget who made some inovative blades centuries ago. These guys still know their stuff. I think we see a asian made knife as junk because so many asian made knives are junk but these things are what i call tackle box knives.Buy it and toss it in your tackle box for that cutting fishing line chore. Those little cheapies that cost you 99 cents at the junk store that have no name brand on them heh.

When you buy a knife where the company who makes it takes time to stamp their name on it youll get a knife that is going to last a long long time. Sog crkt gerber even master knives all Taiwan all decent to extreamly high quality.
 
I have to disagree with some of what is said here, and this of course is just my opinion from collecting and using knives of many types for about 30+ years. I have over the last 8 to ten years moved from using knives that are production made to mostly custom and high end production (like Chris Reeve, Microtech, Strider, etc.). I have found many Japanese manufactured knives to be of very good quality and I have used and collected quite a few over the years like those from Al Mar, Earlier SOG, Gerber Silver Knights, some Kershaws and a few others. However, I have yet to see a Taiwan, China, India or Pakistan made knife that I would use. I had a SOG Gov-Tac for about a week and sold it and will not buy another Taiwan made knife, period. IMO the quality is noticibly different and I refuse to go there again. Of course there is a big difference in cost, but to me it is worth it in terms of reliability, better performance and the fact that am a bit of a nationalist who is inclined to buy American. This is not just a SOG thing either; as many of the "American" Knife companies have gone the same route.
 
I hope the following doesn't sound snippy, because that isn't my intention at all.

If you're a nationalist and inclined to buy American, may I ask why you were buying all those very good quality Japanese made (Al Mar, Kershaw, SOG) knives back in the 80s?

It's easy cite nationalism and patriotism as a reason not to buy foreign knives when companies aren't producing knives that meet your standards of quality. You weren't going to buy those knives anyway.

But when all those cool knives were pouring in from Japan 20 years ago (knife catalogs used to be a real treat, back then) and you liked what you saw, you bought them anyway. They were made in Japan and there were viable alternatives made in the US at the time.

It's easy to claim nationalism when you never planned to buy an import for a different reason. I'm darn proud to be an American who doesn't buy Belgian endives. Yucky tasting things. :p
 
Vaako said:
I hope the following doesn't sound snippy, because that isn't my intention at all.

If you're a nationalist and inclined to buy American, may I ask why you were buying all those very good quality Japanese made (Al Mar, Kershaw, SOG) knives back in the 80s?

It's easy cite nationalism and patriotism as a reason not to buy foreign knives when companies aren't producing knives that meet your standards of quality. You weren't going to buy those knives anyway.

But when all those cool knives were pouring in from Japan 20 years ago (knife catalogs used to be a real treat, back then) and you liked what you saw, you bought them anyway. They were made in Japan and there were viable alternatives made in the US at the time.

It's easy to claim nationalism when you never planned to buy an import for a different reason. I'm darn proud to be an American who doesn't buy Belgian endives. Yucky tasting things. :p
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I have worked in the American Steel industry for the last 9 or so years and have seen that busines destroyed by imports, but these days it is virtually impossible to buy certain things American Made; ie TV, camera, watch, vcr etc.. I own 3 American cars and will try to keep it that way. Now I did not say that I bought exclusively American made knives, did I? I would say that 80% to 90% or more of my collection of Knives has typically been American. The 1st Japan made knife I bought was the Gerber Silver Knight (or Silver Eagle) and I still like them as I have a collection of about 35 different models. The Japan made knives I do buy are the high quality ones that I mentioned earlier and those are the only ones that I would buy. I had a collection of near 400 knives at one point which was primarily Gerber, but have lost some interest in collecting knives and have managed to get the number down to about 200, which I plan to get a lot lower. I have not bought a production knife in a couple of years now and probably won't buy any more, but even If I were to start looking in that direction Japan made would be the only non- USA made knives that I would even consider and that IMO is because of quality issues.
 
I have worked in the American Steel industry for the last 9 or so years and have seen that busines destroyed by imports
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Damn straight. I've never bought an import yet for just that reason. Purchasing a car is one of the largest expenditures a person makes. It's possible the critics are right and some imports are "better". I don't care. If there's a US-made alternative, I'll buy that instead.

Now I did not say that I bought exclusively American made knives, did I? I would say that 80% to 90% or more of my collection of Knives has typically been American.
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No, you didn't, that's what I was getting at. As a nationalist, did you really need to buy a foreign-made knife? I mean, is there anything an American-made knife wouldn't be able to do? That's what I was getting at. It's one thing to buy foreign when a person has to, it's another because they want to.

Quality is a funny thing, depending. In an absolute sense, as long as a knife cuts well, is reasonably strong, and holds its edge well, it's a quality knife. By that standard an Ontario Cutlery "Old Hickory" is quality enough. Aesthetics and blade finishes are a different matter. I haven't seen a decrease in SOG's quality from a functional point of view or a noticeable one, asesthetically.

Case in point, I happen to like the SOG Pentagon. everyone is shocked I have several. The older versions have a finer finish than the newer ones. It's impossible to tell unless you put two of them side by side. Has quality "gone down"? Not really.


But I'm just quibbling. ;)
 
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