Talonite - sharpening and heat resistance

C

Cliff Stamp

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Has anyone noticed a significant difference in the results of sharpening depending on the type of abrasive? I don't mean speed of sharpening, but the cutting ability of the edge produced and the length of time it lasts (assuming similar grits in hones of different materials).

Concerning extreme temperatures, how hot does it have to get before the structure of the blade is effected? What about extreme cold?

-Cliff
 
Cliff,

I’ve sharpened my knife three times, first with a Sharpmaker, followed by a DMT stone and a Lansky system. While I don’t know what grit the black rods of my Sharpmaker is, I know my DMT fine and my Lansky (blue holder) are of 600 grit. My impression is my DMT makes a rougher finish along with microserrations (it’ll bite into materials more) while my Lansky will just polish the edge (similar to my Sharpmaker). While I started with clean stones in both occasions and cleaned the stones intermittently while sharpening, I suspect my Lansky stone was loaded more quickly, hence less aggressive cutting and it had the tendency to just polish. I did both sharpening dry, without any lubricant. Could it be because I didn’t use any lubricant with my Lansky? It could also mean that my Lansky stone is worn for that matter, though I rarely use it. I’m not sure.

As I see it, my DMT finished edge would cut better at first, but not for long. I don’t know if this is scientific or not, but when I shredded a large pizza box (16”x16”x2” of 1/8” thick cardboard), into 1/3” strips, my knife was not as grabby when I was only halfway finished. Came second box, I noticed that when I was about 2/3 finished, the edge was just shiny and polished, no bite whatsoever, but it was still sharp. For comparison my D2 Dozier finished with 600 grit DMT stone retained its bitiness up to 4 boxes. My temporary conclusion is the microserrations in a Talonite knife will not last long. I will admit that 600 grit is not too good for microserrations, so next time I’ll try lowering the grit, probably 300, to see if this is true.

I have no experience so far with heat resistance.

Edit: grammar corrections
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Reynaert

[This message has been edited by Frantium (edited 02-22-2000).]
 
Hmmm... this is and interesting little thread here.
Originally posted by Frantium:
I’ve sharpened my knife three times, first with a Sharpmaker, followed by a DMT stone and a Lansky system.

SNIP

As I see it, my DMT finished edge would cut better at first, but not for long. I don’t know if this is scientific or not, but when I shredded a large pizza box... ...my knife was not as grabby when I was only halfway finished. Came second box, I noticed that when I was about 2/3 finished, the edge was just shiny and polished, no bite whatsoever, but it was still sharp.
Click to expand...

First question, from someone who hasn't even laid eyes on a Talonite blade, except in the 'purty' internet pictures: Why have you sharpened the Talonite blade 3 times? [second question] How long have you had the knife?
Next question: How do you say that it was still sharp after the second box, when there was "no bite whatsoever"? I'm totally
confused.gif
!

I realize that the Talonite won't hold a really fine edge like a nice M2 or 1095 blade. But if it has lost all its bite, how is it not dull?

If all Talonite blades are performing this way (which I can only assume they are right now), then I can only believe that anyone who gets his hands on a CUDA Talon, without a little background on the Talonite, is going to be <u>rather disappointed</u> in the outcome. Well, unless they go out and skin 5 wild boars. The more I read things like this, the more I think that Camillus has gone way out on the edge in attempting to mass produce a Talonite blade (and I use the term <u>"mass"</u> loosely).

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"Absolute safety is for those who don't have the balls to live in the real world."

[This message has been edited by rockspyder (edited 02-22-2000).]

[This message has been edited by rockspyder (edited 02-22-2000).]
 
I don't own a Talonite Blade yet but I am looking forward to it.

Everything I have read indicates that Talonite takes on more of a polished edge better suited for push cutting than slicing.

It is sharp (The two bevels meet cleanly at an infinitely fine line) but it does not have a great deal of bite because the edge is very smooth instead of microserrated.

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AKTI Member No. A000370
 
from what ive seen, and ive told you before i not big on testing and i sharpen my knife every time i use it (buff it every time is more precise) from what ive seen it cuts way better with a coarse finished edge. i mean by that, sharpen with 220 grit belt and buff, i dont have any of the stones and rods that you guys have so our experiences are quite dissimilar, but because it is extremely wear resistant, it makes sense to me to leave the coarser edge rather that a very fine one...but i will readily admit this is all theory. but its something i think about and look at, i have a very strong jewelers loupe somewhere, think i will dig it out.

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http://www.mayoknives.com


 
rockspyder,

Why have you sharpened the Talonite blade 3 times?
Click to expand...

On the three occasions I sharpened it:

1. Out of curiosity I tried to polished the edge a bit, so that it would have a shaving edge. It didn't come with a shaving edge, and I had done some cutting tests before. This was done with a Sharpmaker.

2. Since the wire edge went rather quickly I have to admit that I thought I had dulled the knife, while this was not true. The knife would still cut excellently. For further details see this thread: http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/001374.html . This was when I sharpened it with my DMT stone.

3. The third sharpening was once again out of curiosity, to see if there was any difference in sharpening speed between my DMT and my Lansky, not because it won't cut or anything.

How long have you had the knife?
Click to expand...

As of today it has been 21 days.

How do you say that it was still sharp after the second box, when there was "no bite whatsoever"?
Click to expand...

Now this is rather difficult to explain. My Talonite would still cut everything nicely, but it felt like the edge was polished, which is what I meant by 'no bite.' It acted very much like it was finished with a much higher grit, i.e. polished edge.

I can only believe that anyone who gets his hands on a CUDA Talon, without a little background on the Talonite, is going to be rather disappointed in the outcome.
Click to expand...

Confused? Me too, but I'm rather satisfied with my experience. Don't draw your conclusion yet, as there is a certain different feel when you use Talonite. When it reaches that polished state, it stays like that for a long time. Remember that I resharpened it three times not because it wouldn't cut.

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Reynaert

[This message has been edited by Frantium (edited 02-22-2000).]
 
Originally posted by Frantium:
Now this is rather difficult to explain. My Talonite would still cut everything nicely, but it felt like the edge was polished, which is what I meant by 'no bite.' It acted very much like it was finished with a much higher grit, i.e. polished edge.
SNIP

Confused? Me too, but I'm rather satisfied with my experience. Don't draw your conclusion yet, as there is a certain different feel when you use Talonite. When it reaches that polished state, it stays like that for a long time. Remember that I resharpened it three times not because it wouldn't cut.
Click to expand...

OK, all that makes more sense. I was getting the impression, before reading the first paragraph above, that I was hearing of performance similar to what I have seen of 440V, at least from production co.'s. The ones I have had would take a sweet, keen edge, but lose that keenness pretty quickly. Then it was just the polished, scraping edge, that would last, well, not much longer. IMO, just getting dull quickly. But, it sounds like the Talonite doesn't degrade any further than this semi-sharp, scraping edge for a loooong time. That sounds pretty good. I still am afraid that a lot of people that buy the Talonite in production, that don't have the background of all the forum information on the metal, are going to be really disappointed when they can't make it maintain that shaving edge. Well, unless they are sharpening challenged, and don't normally put a shaving edge on their knives.
wink.gif


Thanks for the information, Reynaert


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"Absolute safety is for those who don't have the balls to live in the real world."
 
Cliff; while Talonite (r) has a comfortable range of temperature stability under conditions of use, it is a different matter when grinding the blade to shape.

Ed Schott thought the Talonite (r) billet I had provided him was faulty, and full of inclusions. He sent me a picture of it, and it sure looked faulty to me. It turned out that he was just getting it too hot while grinding it. I returned the Talonite (r) to Carbide Processors, and they Blanchard ground the knife blank, revealing normal Talonite (r). Rob Simonich advised Ed on the best way to grind the alloy, and Ed successfully ground out the knife he is making me now. Even though Ed was holding the blank in his bare hands, the alloy got too hot at the grinding point, without Ed being aware of any heat transmitted through his hands.

Ed if you could comment further on this, it would be appreciated, as you undoubtedly can describe this situation much better than I can.

Walt
 
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