Talonite vs custom high performance steel blades?

C

Cliff Stamp

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For those people who have been using Talonite blades for some time, are there any with steel blades of high performance cutting geometries such as ground by David Boye, Phil Wilson, R. J. Martin and others. If so what are your opinions on the edge holding and cutting ability of Talonite as compared to the steel blades?

What I would appreciate is information along the lines of what kinds of materials are being cut, and how the Talonite blade performs in regards to the amount of force required to make the cut and how long between sharpenings to you go as compared to the steel blade. There is no need for extreme precision in this regard.

Two further aspects, first has anyone seen corrosion on a Talonite blade and second has anyone damaged one and if so what was the relative level of stress. Would it have damaged a tool steel blade of similar geometry for example? This I think is a critical property as Steve Harvey has illustrated with direct work he has done and Joe Talmadge as well provided a significant amount of information in this area.

-Cliff
 
Wow.

Heavy quesion.

I have to post just to bubble this to the top.....

I suggest that some generous knife maker donate a Talonite knife of larger size to Cliff Stamp, so that he can break it....

Then we will all know the wonders of Talonite.

Any well-to-do takers, or those who get Talonite cheap? wink-wink, nudge-nudge, know what I mean-know what I mean.

Your walk is not funny, this is a funny walk...

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Thank you,
Marion David Poff aka Eye, Cd'A ID, USA mdpoff@hotmail.com

Talonite Information and Resource Page, including other cobalt materials.

"We will either find a way, or make one." Hannibal, 210 B.C.
 
Cliff,
All of the blade materials I use are based on performace characteristics I have observed over years in a manufacturing environment. That is why I work with 01,A2 and D2. When I see these steels cutting other metals with predetermined results, it gives me a confidence when using them for knives.
So far, of the Talonite knives I've made, I have done little or no testing on them.
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Out of my next order of Talonite, I will make a a small utility knife for myself!
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This will be for R&D purposes..
Also from this material I will be making some small shearing blades for a company that makes medical supplies. These cutters go into a machine that makes blister packs and cut 1" wide, single layer cardboard at a rather high rate of speed. At this time they are using D2 blades that I made about 3 months ago. About once per week they are sharpened on a surface grinder to an exact angle, diamond honed, then re-installed. While they are not ground at the same angle as a knife blade it should provide SOME comparison.
I will Email you with the results as they develope.
Neil

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Blackwood Knives
More knives in stock soon!
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Cliff,

I'll try to answer some of your questions.

First, Talonite and corrosion? Non-sequitor...the stuff DOESN'T corrode period!

Second, cutting tests.... mmmm, I've used lineolium tile, yellow nylon rope, dried hardwoods, cardboard, very recently Nordost Flatline cable (I terminated about 18 lengths ... this stuff is tough... each side has 4 seperated rectangular pure oxygen free copper feeds all encased in teflon shielding). Others have tried glass, wild boar, hemp rope, etc. I've found quick touch ups with ceramic or diamond hones works very well but that I don't need to do this anywhere near as frequently as with CPM440V which from my knothole says something!

Third, comparisons to other high grade alloys. I've custom and production knives with great blades (CPM, A2, D2, O-1, 154CM, Carbon-V, dendritic D-2, etc ad nauseum). Bottom line: nothing else comes close. And I've had a Talonite blade probably longer than anyone else, having the first ever made by Rob Simonich
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!



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-=[Bob Allman]=-

I did NOT escape from the institution! They gave me a day pass!

BFC member since the very beginning
Member: American Knife & Tool Institute; Varmint Hunters Association;
National Rifle Association; Praire Thunder Inc.; Rapid City Rifle Club;
Spearfish Rifle & Pistol Club; Buck Collectors Club (prime interest: 532s)
Certified Talonite(r) enthusiast!
 
Cliff; I had a failure with a Talonite (r) folder. Actually, I sent it to Steve Harvey to test, as my testing abilities are mundane, to say the least. He was making radial cuts in the bottom of a Coke bottle. With the second cut, a piece of the edge, about 1 1/2" long and 1/32" thick just peeled right off the edge. There was no torsion on the blade, and the cut was straight.

Steve was horrified, but I was delighted, as the toughness of Talonite (r) had been a concern from the beginning, and now we had some data! Steve's hypothesis was that the edge was just too thin; I believe this to be correct. I had another Talonite (r) folder with me, a Kit Carson #18, and Steve and I proceeded to cut Coke bottles and old plastic flower pots without difficulty. The maker of the damaged folder is replacing the blade without charge.

Regarding sending you a Talonite (r) knife for testing, I would be glad to do so. At the moment, I have only a Cetan and a Kit Carson large U-2 dive knife. Mike Turber has my small U-2 dive knife. My daughter has a Kit Carson #18 folder in Talonite, and a Wambli as well, but I doubt that you or I could pry them from her fingers. She just got through using the Wambli in a wallpapering job in her home. It performed well.

I do have a drop point hunter on order from Ed Schott, which is nearly ready. I could have him send it directly to you. Rob Simonich has three or four knives in the works for me, the first of which that is likely to be ready is a Wambli. Tom Mayo is sending me a drop point hunter with ebony scales, OAL about 8", so this would be available soon. He is also making me a larger drop point hunter, of 10" OAL, but this was just ordered.

Let me know what you would like to test, and I will make the knife available. While I expect you to not deliberately test the knife to destruction, I will absolve you of any responsibility for any damage suffered from the knife. Such damage, should it occur, will be entirely my problem.

Walt
 
first of all....Iron is what rusts in steel, there is NONE in talonite....i have also noticed that soldering flux does NOTHING to talonite, on the soldered on guard models. I personally think, from reading about this and using it for a while now, especially from reading and talking to Rob more than my own experience...that as long as the blade is not ground too thin, talonite will bend before it will break....my limited experience opinion....I made a number of knives in Vascowear years ago...this material was specially developed for paper cutting shears....and it is TOUGH...read tough.....420V grinds like vasco, before and after heat treat, but is much less corrosion prone....420V is like 440v on steroids, only much tougher from everything i have seen and read....thats why i started using it...it is NO fun to grind....worse to finish....but i think it and Talonite are the top performers at this point in time. you can read my post on Stellite 6K on the other post...it is very difficult to work with...I will NEVER make a knife out of vascowear again.

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http://www.mayoknives.com


 
Dr. Lathe, thanks for the offer. It possible would you be able to get a rough estimate of the time it takes to sharpen as well as the frequency it is necessary. It would be nice to get a comparison of the structure of the blunted edges also. Any information would be appreciated however.

Bob, thanks for the comments, what is the edge profile on your Talonite blade? One thing, was "dendritic D-2" a misfire or does such stuff actually exist? It is a casting process similar to Boye's dendritic 440C?

Walt, thanks for the offer, I have a small Talonite knife that I am working with now.

-Cliff
 
Cliff,

I used one of my BDS(teel) folders to cut up a soda bottle over the weekend. I pushed on it about as hard as I thought the handle could stand, cut in circles, intentionally tried to vear off and jam the edge into the hard center. No damage whatsoever. Much lighter high-jinks put a shallow wobble in the edge of the BDC(obalt) blade. Edge thicknesses and blade shape are pretty much identical as far as I can tell.
 
Cliff,

All my Talonite blades are flat ground with edges of around 0.020 (think I've got that decimel point placed right) which means they're reinforced.

The dendritic D2 was no misprint. Gary Kelley, up in Oregon, casts the stuff. Mine is a faux chipped flint style blade that I finished with a polished buffalo horn handle. Neat stuff with lots of grabby carbides, which of course is what dendritic is all about.



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-=[Bob Allman]=-

I did NOT escape from the institution! They gave me a day pass!

BFC member since the very beginning
Member: American Knife & Tool Institute; Varmint Hunters Association;
National Rifle Association; Praire Thunder Inc.; Rapid City Rifle Club;
Spearfish Rifle & Pistol Club; Buck Collectors Club (prime interest: 532s)
Certified Talonite(r) enthusiast!
 
very interesting thread at last!
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the .020 edge sounds a bit thick to me, especially for gents folders or general using folders for everyday use. i grind my edges to .007-.010 and find thin cuts very nicely. plus i just dont like the look of a thick edge.
i have a couple questions:

1. is talonite only good in a thicker edge? if so...
2. what steel is the best for a thin edge for everyday using folders?

unfortunately nobody seems to use my knives so i have no feedback on actual edge holding or sharpening difficulties, but still i am out to first and foremost to make the best knife possible with the finest materials available.

obviously to me corrosion resistance is important and ats34 has been my choice steel for years now. also important is the finishing capabillities of the material as i put a 1500 grit hand rubbed finish on my blades so talonite and vasco type steels that do not finish well are somewhat useless to me.

any info here is appreciated
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tim
 
Steve, thanks for the information. I have some very thin edges steel blades I will repeat that with. Thanks to the references Walt provided I have some guide to make sense out of the performance being seen.

Ryan and Bob, thanks for the clarification, that sounds very interesting. I like the performance of D2 and will have to check out the dendritic variation.

Tim, I have blades in the .01" and thinner variety (no edge bevel at all) and they easily outcut thicker blades by a very wide margin. As for what steels to use. You want a very strong material to resist rolling and a very tough one to resist fracture. CPM-10V is nice for light use and CPM-3V for heavier. Phil Wilson and Ed Schott would be two people to talk to in this regard.

-Cliff
 
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