Tang testing & nail chopping

Joined
Jul 5, 1999
Messages
933
Hello everybody. I'm Dave from Portland. I've never posted on this forum before, but I just wanted to say that it is one of the best that I have read, and also very educational to a newbie.

In any case, I have recently begun the process of going broke through excessive purchasing of HI khukuris,
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and when I ordered my third khukuri, Uncle Bill suggested that I take all of them out and do some serious chopping with them. So, when my third khukuri arrived, I put all three of my HI khukuris in a duffel bag with the intent of going down by the river to chop up whatever I could find. I also threw in a Cold Steel Rifleman's Tomahawk for comparison purposes.

I started out with some sort of huge, waterlogged old stumps, one vertical and one horizontal. They were so mushy that the khukuris had a marked tendency to bounce off of them rather than chop in very far. Best penetration was achieved with the (much thinner) Rifleman's hawk. I also tested the tips of the khukuris, but the wood was so soft that I soon grew bored of effortlessly ripping it up.

Next I moved on to a dry piece of heavy hardwood. I started off with my most recent purchase, a shop 2 20" sirupati sn 2. It chopped much deeper into the dry wood, and I then began hammering with the spine just to test the tang. Satisfied with that, I then went onto my final planned test of smashing the side of the blade into the log. BOING!!! On the second strike, the blade of the sirupati decided to try and escape my cruel punishment by detaching itself from the handle, breaking off right at the tang and luckily falling to the ground without hitting anything or anybody on the way back down. I was now left with a 15" sirupati that was razor sharp for its entire length, so I carefully picked it up, wiped off the sand, and slid it back into its sheath.

I then tested the other two khukuris in the same manner. They both chopped much better than they did in the waterlogged stumps, and I was especially impressed with the chopping performance of the relatively smaller 16" WWII. I smashed them as hard as I could in every way I could think of, but all the only things I managed to hurt at all were the log and my poor little hands.
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The tomahawk still chopped a little better, but it was a close call with the harder wood.

On the way to my next planned test, I saw a discarded board with some big rusty nails driven through it, so I decided to try and chop some of them up. I started out with the shop 1 WWII. The first chop resulted in a fairly large chip on the blade, and little detectable damage to the nail. I tried about ten more chops, but the blade just got totally ripped up while the recalcitrant nail sat there and laughed at it. Next I brought out my only other remaining khukuri, another 20" shop 2 sirupati special. This one had been giving me major headaches with rust in spite of a near-daily olive oil regimen, but it turned out to be the best-performing khuk of the day when it went right through the nail on the second chop with only the slightest of impaction to the edge. Finally tried to chop some nails up with the tomahawk, but it couldn't quite get through them, instead it bent them up severely. It got notched up worse than the sirupati, but not nearly as bad as the WWII.

My next planned test was to whack some trees with my two remaining knives, but this turned out to be kind of irrelevant as the bark cushioned the blows compared to the bare hardwood that had broken the sirupati. I did notice that the remaining sirupati had started to make weird noises when I smashed it against Mr. Tree. I also noticed that the flat buttcap had gotten loose and the corner had started ripping up my palm. I was nervous that its tang may have been damaged as well.

My final test was the one I felt to be the most brutal, and was the real reason I brought the tomahawk along. I found a couple of big rocks and covered them with rags so as not to scratch the blades when I placed them on the rocks. I then put the sirupati's frog around its blade, put the blade on the rocks, picked up the tomahawk, and began hammering the hell out of the knife at the blade/tang juncture. The frogs got a bit scratched up, but neither khukuri took any damage whatsoever. Satisfied that I had tested all 3 khuks to the limits of my ability, I packed everything back up in the duffel bag and trudged back home to the trailer my landlord calls an "apartment."
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I did pass by a discarded steel grocery cart on my way back home, but I wimped out and opted not to try and chop it up as well.
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All that was left to do was to call Uncle Bill with the bad news. He told me to send it back, of course, but I also included the nail that the other had chopped up to show what a good performer the other sirupati was.

Did you get that package yet Uncle Bill? Don't forget to look in the envelope!
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-Dave
 
Got the package back and the envelope -- examined the nail and read the letter. The khukuri will be resurrected.

I want to thank you for testing out the khukuris as you did and for posting the results. I encourage everybody to test as you did. This is exactly the reason Kami wanted to get a couple of hundred khukuris into the field for heavy use. The tang turned out to be the area that needed improvement and I think they have got the problem corrected and don't expect to see this problem again.

Did you get the package I sent you? I am eager to get your reactions.

Thanks again for time and effort.

Uncle Bill
 
Dave

WOW, you sure put um through your own obstacle course!! I chopped through a galvanized fence staple inadvertantly with a my village 20 inch serupati, and only a small indent in the blade that came out with a file and steel. Clipped that staple into and a piece of wire also. It was inbedded under the bark!
The salyan or the ang khola might be a better wire or nail chopper than the ww11. A pair of wire cutters might work well too.
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My WW11 is just too pretty to chop nails.
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But as Uncle Bill says, these knives are made for using, and he stands behind every one of them.
Maybe it is the constant rain or cloudy grey days that makes us Oregonians want to go out and attempt to test to the limits perfectly beautiful khukuris.
Dave, if you want to cut up some oak limbs and logs, let me know. I probably don't live far from you. You are welcome to chop, whack and bang them all you want.
Jim

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What? Another knife? Don't you have enough of those things already?
How many does one person need?
And just what are you going to do with this one that you can't do with the others?
What is the purpose of all these knives anyhow??

 
When we chop nails, bolts, and the like, and try our best to bend and break blades, we all expect to do damage to the blade. As Cliff often says, it is the extent of the damage that is important.

Uncle Bill
 
:
Another one? With another one having some quick rusting problems,But a nice hard blade that cuts well.
I will bet that this one is like my 18"AK that has the perfect hardness.
If it is that is one Helluva Knife!!
The one we just resurected is also one of the extra hard blades. I think these are ideal for the use we put them through though.
I will have to do some digging with my 18" AK to see how it holds up to that.These blades are a little harder t sharpen with regular tools,but the diamonds work wonders on them.

Uncle:
Will you let me and my cuz fix this one too? Please.
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I know he had fun doing that and I did too.
This one shouldn't take as long since we have done it before.
I guess it depends mostly on his taking the time to weld it.
Whatever you decide is okay though.


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>>>>---¥vsa---->®
The civilized man sleeps behind locked doors in the city while the naked savage sleeps (with a knife) in a open hut in the jungle.
 
Yvsa, you have the job. After you are done Dave may want it back because it will be better than new and guaranteed for ten lifetimes instead of one.

Uncle Bill
 
Glad you got the package back, Uncle Bill.

That 20" Ang Khola you sent me is awesome! Thank you so much! It measured out at about 22" inches or so, with the karda just under 8". Perhaps I should have tried some chopping with the karda as well.
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To my eyes, at least, with the scaled-up AK style handle, a knife this big looks surreal, like it was maybe an extra large movie prop or something, and it is even heavier than it looks. I wish I had a scale to weigh it on.

I took it down by the river as soon as I got a chance and took it through the exact same testing regimen as before, which it passed with flying colors. The 22" AK laughs at the very idea of breaking and it chopped the hell out of The Log That Ate The Sirupati. It also performed pretty well in the nail test; while it failed to chop through nails in one blow like the mighty shop 2 sirupati, it didn't get nearly as notched up as my poor little WWII model, and there was absolutely no chipping at any time.

As a sidenote, I also took out 2 cheapo Indian "kukris" with the full intent of destroying them. I even tried smashing them with the Ang Khola but those full tang knives are pretty tough to break, at least for a wimp like me. As far as performance went they were pretty dismal, though. They didn't chop wood too well, and they got totally ripped up in the nail chopping event.
Those nails didn't look scared of 'em at all.

Finally, just for the fun of trying to smash things with the Ang Khola, I hit the side of the relatively thin rifleman's hawk with the spine of the AK but the 'hawk head wouldn't budge. Not bad.

After that, it was time to go home and attempt to fix the notched-up blades. I took some pix of the damage with a digital camera someone had loaned me, but I'm still a little unsure as to how to post them; maybe I'll figure it out tonight.

In any case, I would just like to say that I remain a happy customer and am very impressed with the overall toughness of these knives. And I can say from personal experience that in the remote chance that anything ever goes wrong, Uncle Bill will make it right.

-Dave
 
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Okay Uncle Bill.
That is a deal.It is nice to see them resurected and as good as new.
I doubt that anyone except a Nepali Kami could make them better than new.

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>>>>---¥vsa---->®
The civilized man sleeps behind locked doors in the city while the naked savage sleeps (with a knife) in a open hut in the jungle.



[This message has been edited by Yvsa (edited 16 August 1999).]
 
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Hey folks! Sorry I didn't reply to your messages sooner.</p>

I don't know nearly as much as our resident experts here, but if experienced folks like Yvsa recommend a knife, I will definitely take their advice.</p>

That sirupati you and your cousin resurrected looks really good, Yvsa!</p>

It's hard to pass up a ten lifetimes guarantee, too.</p>

GONESAILING: It was helpful of you to suggest a boltcutter next time I want to cut nails.
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Do you live near Portland?</p>

Here are a few of the picks I took after the testing was all over. Could anyone be kind enough to tell a newbie how to to remove deep notches from an abused blade?</p>

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This sirupati went right through the nail!</p>

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Tomahawk held up pretty good.</p>

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Help! How do I fix this?</p>

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Hate it when that happens...</p>

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Cheap "Kukris" from the subcontinent.</p>

-Dave</p>

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Hi Dave:

Thanks for pix. From what I can see in the pix it looks like the blade tried to roll rather than chip which is what I prefer to see. I have brought a test blade back to life which suffered from chopping nails and bolts by doing a little hammering first and then using the chakma for final touch up and then final sharpening. If you can't get it back to original condition let's send it to Yvsa who can do it for sure.

Uncle Bill
 
:
Dave:
I will be glad to fix the blades up for you if needed,but you should be able to get them to satisfactory condition using the information Uncle Bill gave you.
Uncle has told you the best way to fix the blade up.

I might add that you need to use a piece of solid steel under the edge
and use firm taps rght on the part that's bent.Be sure and turn the blade over and work from both sides to even out the damage.

It helps if you have somethng like an old piece of railroad rail or something similiar so you can get right next to the edge of it when working these out.
After you use the chakma then it is time for a"good" file.
I have several in different cuts.
If you have to buy a file be sure and get a handle to fit it.The handle will save you a lot of grief.It also lets you use the whole cutting edge of the file.

The smooth bastard cut is the best for finishing work and everyone should have one of these that has a Kuhkuri they use.
If a person has access to a nice vise they can lock the Kuhkuri in it and get the initial bumps out using the file in a normal manner.

Thne there is the "Ol' Machinists' trick of 'draw fileing'.
Holding the file by the handle and the end,placing it side ways to the work you can 'draw' the file towards you along the edge......................................BE DAY-UMED CAREFUL !!!.......
I have cut myself like this many times.They are uually deep and very uncomfortable.Watch That Edge At ALL Times!!...............
Draw fileing makes a nice smooth cut that done correctly with a nice smooth file approaches an edge the same as a soft Arkansas stone will give you.Done correctly you should be able to shave with this edge.
You can also use a C-clamp or two and clamp the knife to the edge of a table.
I also use draw fileing to work out the grooves made by coarser cutting files when I can.
It is important to keep your file very clean.A wire brush or better yet a 'file card' takes care of that.

The other Sirupati is like the one that broke and I suspected as much.
These blades are super hard and will go through just about anything without any damage. I prefer this level of hardness and have said before I think it is the perfect hardness.
The Sirupati you have will last ten lifetimes.
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Jim:
You mean you have shaved with that Salyan???
Day-um!! I shudder when I hold the 18" AK up next to my arm or leg.

What would it take for some enlightened Oregonian to find me a nice straight piece of Yew Wood about 4 1/2' to 5 1/2'foot long and perhaps 4" to 6" in dia.and send it to me?
It would be nice to have one with no knots,but I know that's impossible or nearly so.I wuld be perhaps the only Indin in Oklahoma with a Yew Wood bow.




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&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;---¥vsa----&gt;®
The civilized man sleeps behind locked doors in the city while the naked savage sleeps (with a knife) in a open hut in the jungle.

 
I might add that the hardest area of the blade should be the chopping area...the blade softens out some near tip and back towards the cho. I try to chop nails at the widest point of the blade where it is generally hardest.

And thanks for good tips, Yvsa. That Sirupati is coming to you to be brought back to ten lifetimes of use.

Uncle Bill
 

Yvsa I will add you to the list of bowmakers who would like some yew. I have never seen a clear piece of yew that size except in books (a Nez Perce self bow, I think) and on live yew trees. Since they started making anti-cancer drugs out of yew bark the trees seem less common or maybe I just don't know where to look. Because of this it wouldn't be right for me to take a live tree - but if there is some windfall I will know it's yours.

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Namaste,
Jeff Paulsen
 
:
Thanks Uncle Bill.
I am anxious to get started seeing as how we have done it once.I am wondering if this one will take as long.I don't know how my cuz works in a weldng shop during the Oklahoma summers.I think I heard one of the meterologist say it had been 45 days since the last rain.
I know we are under a'red flag' alert and won't be having anymore Sweats until it is lifted.

Jeff you are a fine man!!
It probably won't be long until you find the 'right' windfall.
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It seems that these kinds of things has been happening very frequently of late.
When I was 13 and lived in Orofino Idaho there was a boy a year ahead of me that made a Yew Wood bow in woodshop.It was almost a full 6 feet long and approached the English longbow in proportion.When it was done the class took it too the football field to shoot it.
Iwas told the field wasn't long enough and it was a good thing there was open field behind it.
It was said to have shot about 250 yards on a 'casting' shot.I didn't know then that the Yew grew in the northwest.If I would've known I most definitely would have had some.
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There is no doubt that the bow woods are all either crooked or knot filled or both.A friend of mine cut a piece of Bois'D'Arc winter before last and seasoned it right.He tillered a bow from it and everyone has asked him where he found such a piece of it like that.It is about 5'2" perfectly straight and no knots.
Almost impossible to find such a stave anymore like that.I have a bow made from this wood,but it is half sapwood and in the really good bows only the heart is used.It starts out as a beautiful golden yellow that ages into a deep burnt orange color.There is one at the zoo on display that is almost black.I imagine that one is a couple a hundred years old.




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&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;---¥vsa----&gt;®
The civilized man sleeps behind locked doors in the city while the naked savage sleeps (with a knife) in a open hut in the jungle.

 

Yew is nice, but don't forget what Ishii said, "Any bent stick work for bow. Good arrow is hard."
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Then again his people hunted in the forest of northern California, where you don't never get 200 yard shots.

I'll be on the lookout.

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Namaste,
Jeff Paulsen
 
Yvsa, the knife is exactly like the last one -- looks the same as last one you got except handle is probably better. This is from shop 2. The first one you got was the first tang failure from shop 1 ever. You will have one of each.

Why did shop 1 go 9 years without a tang failure and then they all show up at once? How many people know the answer?

Namaste (Jeff is reminding me of my manners)

Uncle Bil
 
:
Hurry,hurry,hurry!!
The old cliche comes to mind.
"Haste makes waste."
That is what happend to the failed Kuhkuri's.
The Kamis have been under pressure.
It is true that we are all related.There isn't any human being on this planet that doesn't make mistakes when we hurry.

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&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;---¥vsa----&gt;®
The civilized man sleeps behind locked doors in the city while the naked savage sleeps (with a knife) in a open hut in the jungle.

 
Wish I had the answer for you, Uncle Bill.
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Thanks for helping me with fixing it up, too.
:
Yvsa:

Thanks for the clarification about the hammering thing. I don't know why I didn't think of the bastard file. I recently discovered that technique through trial and error when I first tried to sharpen a totally blunt (like, no edge at all...) Indian kukri. I threw the knife into a Lansky clamp and tried all the different files I could find, eventually finding the mill bastard to be the best one I had when used in the back-and-forth method you described. I wonder if the smooth bastard file you recomended would have probably worked better.

I like that name, "smooth bastard"
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As it turned out, impatient white monkey that I am, I couldn't wait for the advice of those more knowledgeable, and instead just propped the knife on my knee and used an old hardware store silicon carbide stone freehand until I had ground off all the chips and notches. Finished up freehand with lansky hones and a butcher's steel and it is once again shavin' sharp!

Next time I will try the more intelligent techniques that you and Uncle Bill recommended.

Namaste and thank you both for the sharpening lessons!

-Dave

"Smooth Bastard..."
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Dave,

A great test and thanks for sharing it. How big are the nails you chopped at, they look hudge? As Bill pointed out the area near the tip is the softest. Did the Sirupati and WWII model strike near the middle? Can you post pictures of the WWII model as well?

Your 22" Ang Khola will weight around 3.75 lbs, thats the size of mine. Mine came razor sharp, (it really took hair off my arm out of the box).

Will
 
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