Tanto point

Alarion

Alarion

Joined
Nov 26, 2001
Messages
1,375
Here's something I heard too many times, the last in the favourite point thread:
Tanto is tougher for stabbing.
Yes, indeed, sure.
A hammer is even tougher. :p
A tanto point is cool, fashionable, hi-tech looking, solid.
Is it good for stabbing?
I can safely say that it is the worst shape for stabbing you can give a knife and still have a point on it.

Come on, get out the marketing hype fog!:rolleyes:
In the entire world the tanto point was used only in a single country, known for its swords made specifically for _cutting_.
Did the japanese, when creating a stabbing weapon like the yari, give it a tanto point? No, they gave it a traditional, european like point and a good, stout triangular or diamond cross section!

The best point for stabbing is the leaf bladed point (as used in all of the remaining world) or the stiletto point. Both were used for centuries or millenia, simply because there's nothing better.
It's not a matter of opinion, it's physics, plain and simple.
Angle, leverage, specific pressure and all these things say that a sharp stiletto or leaf point are far better in penetration.
All these have been proved strong enough to pierce strong steel armor without suffering damage.
A tanto was used to CUT.
Look at stabbing weapons:
An Oakeshott's type XV sword is made for stabbing.
Rapiers are made for stabbing.
XVI century stilettoes are made for stabbing.
Spearheads are made for stabbing.
How many of these have tanto points? None.

Even on supposed point toughness there's much to be said. A leaf point will resist far better the impact against steel sheet far better than the tanto point. In the leaf balde the edge will impact at a steep angle and it will support itself. In the tanto point it's easy that upon piercing the metal the edge will be nicked.
As they say... try and believe ;)
 
Originally posted by Alarion
I can safely say that it is the worst shape for stabbing you can give a knife and still have a point on it.
Click to expand...

OK, I am selling all my tanto blades at once. You have convinced me. :rolleyes:
 
Ok, let's say that until you buy tanto pointed knives since they are cool (ehy, I too have a couple of them :D) and mean looking it's ok. Just not be fooled into thinking they are super-stabbing blades.
They aren't.
Even japanese tantos didn't have a tanto point :)
Most had a very common knife point like you can find on many knives around Europe or the USA or even double edged leaf point for stabbing. When designing a weapon for stabbing even them abandoned tanto point for something better.
 
Hello folks,


I personally don't like tanto's.. That being said, I think people think of tanto when they see a secondary point, and no curve going from tip to blade, but two straight lines.

Japanese swordsmiths would have turned over in their graves if they tought you called "that" a tanto point.

Ever saw a katana? Probably no-one noticed but it has no tanto point.

The kind of tip they put on real katana's are really good to cut for a few reasons :
1. they are zero-edge ground = Extremely sharp while keeping a fairly thick blade.
2. They end in a fairly blunt tip if you look from sideways, this is done to keep the full spin thickness as close as possible to the tip.

Results: a well cutting well armour piercing slashing tip.

Now for some reason people with grinders tought that geometric tanto's looked good.. and in some cases they do. Then Cold steel came along hyping (they are really good at that too :D) that tanto's offer the strongest tip configuration ever. In some cases they do.. you just make a primary grind and then while sharpening you make sure the edge reaches the tip.. so you'll have full thickness at 1/4 inch behind the tip.. OK it's strong... but it's UGLY.. and cuts like a prybar.

Then.. it got even worse... Chiselgrounds !!! again something claimed to be japanese or chinese ( for food preparation yeah - easier to sharpen) And then.. ther real ugly tanto's started showing up.. ever seen the tip of a buck/strider tanto? No way in hell that tip cuts something. Last one I saw I'm guessing had an angle of 70 degrees from tip to spine looking on the back.

In short.. I think everything called tanto-tip should be renamed something else ( I vote for prybar-tip :D ) and keep the name tanto - which actually means something right to some people - for the real tanto-points.

Greetz and take care, bart.
 
Originally posted by Bart student
Hello folks,


I personally don't like tanto's.. That being said, I think people think of tanto when they see a secondary point, and no curve going from tip to blade, but two straight lines.

Japanese swordsmiths would have turned over in their graves if they tought you called "that" a tanto point.
Click to expand...

Just about time somebody said this too. I didn't want to twist the knife in the wound too much, but that's true too. What we call "tanto" point has nothing to do with a traditional shinogi zhukuri blade.
 
This topic was discussed in the April, 2002 issue of 'Blade,' page 13.

I think what we are really discussing is the profile of an 'American' tanto.

I've used the American style quite successfully in the guise of a Microtech SOCOM. Great knife. But my taste has changed, and I find clip points better in MY life, and I don't use combo blades anymore.

For me, I could never cut very well with a chisel grind. However, a lot of people do, and like that style of blade. After all, the Emerson CQC7 is probably the most popular knife of the 1990's.
 
I love the traditional Japanese tips and really don't care for the American Tanto. This is just a personal thing, but having owned a couple of knives with this tip profile, I found that it just wasn't what I wanted in a cutting tool.

I am sure that the CQC-7 was a very popular knife, but it was no where near the most popular of the 90's. Probably just about any of the Victorinox models would have out sold it and I am sure that there would be many others as well. It may well have been the most popular tactical folder of the 90's. Of that I am not sure.
 
KWM, yes, you are right. I meant to say that the CQC7 is probably the most popular TACTICAL knife.
 
Sorry to rekindle this debate, but having read it, i just have to know. You say the Tanto point is all hype, and not useful. Is this ANY tanto blade, or just some that are less fluid-dynamic than others. Im thinking specifically of Microtech's tanto points, theyre very pointed, sharp and slender, it almost like a regular blade, but with the slightest upturn. Looking at its profile, its hard to imagine this thing NOT being good for stabbing. The profile is so pointed, so sharp, how could it NOT be good? Opinions? Thanks.
 
Microtech and spyderco with their lum's, make tanto's, but their edge is not composed of two nearly straight lines with an angle.
You can slice with a microtech tanto point and not even feel the secondary tip. Same with the Lum. These tanto tips are a lot closer to the original tanto tip, which were made like that, even without secondary tip. Personally I really like these tips, but they are in a whole other league then the tanto-tips I don't like.

If I talk about tanto's I don't like, I'l looking for Cold steel tanto's, Benchmade bali tanto's, strider tanto's. These have a nearly straight edge, a rather steep angle and another edge towards the tip. This geometric design is what we are talking about... this design is what I think doesn't deserve to carry the name tanto.

greetz and take care, Bart.
 
Good grief. This has been argued to death already.

Try a search.

If you don't like them, don't buy them. More for me.
 
Actually the Tanto point is TOUGHER than most traditional point styles, but it is more difficult to penetrate with than most styles.
"Better for stabbing" is a really relative term.
I basically agree with Mick Strider's "Triangle of Death" theory, that once you get that Tanto point in there, it's unusual geometric shape and strength help to create a wider permanent crush cavity, thus having the wound close upon itself less. Less blood, less coherence and strength for the resident bad guy. You'll have to work more to get it in there, but when you do, it won't break, and it'll do more real substantial damage.
 
:D When I'm feeling stabbie I reach for the ice pick and break apart some Ice. Next time I'll make a point to grab the tanto Boker/Nealy and see if that works. :D
 
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