Tanto point

[Alarion]

I think that it's just a fahsion, that such blades aren't really useful or better than the traditional ones and surely they are no good especially in their more advertised feature: good blade shape for stabbing.

1) Tanto point is not tanto point. Tantos had a point similar to a normal western knife point. Katanas had a similar point but the shape of the kissaki (the part of point separated by a corner from the blade) was much different.

2) Tanto point is no good for stabbing. A tanto point is much more sturdy than traditional points. A hammer is sturdy too, but I don't think anybody in his right mind would advertise a hammer as great for stabbing.
Tanto point was developed by a culture famous for their CUTTING blades, which for stabbing used blades designed exactly like western ones.
A good stabbing point is that of F/S dagger, or of a XVII century stiletto.

3)Any traditional blade (but the square point shaped ones like the italian "Mozzetto") will outperform the tanto point in stabbing and will perform equally well in cutting.

 

[TomW]

It is just a fashion.
The tanto is good for almost nothing.
It is not best at anything,
It is human nature to buy things we like then look for reasons to justify .
Why not just buy it because we like it?
Does it have to be superior at anything?
Not for me. I own a few just because they look and feel good to me.
My only justification

 

[MamBo]

tanto, as many other blade styles have they own pace. I don't like them personaly, but still have couple in my collection.

 

[made2cut]

I used my cheap Fury chisle edge tanto to remove wall paper in my kitchen last week. Tanto's are a nice shape for utility jobs like that and they are easy to sharpen.

 

[Bladeswinger]

Originally posted by TomW
It is just a fashion.
The tanto is good for almost nothing.
It is not best at anything,
It is human nature to buy things we like then look for reasons to justify .
Why not just buy it because we like it?
Does it have to be superior at anything?
Not for me. I own a few just because they look and feel good to me.
My only justification

Wow, I see someone doesn't know the reason a tanto style blade has been around for centuries!! See Japan's history and the reasons why the tanto is their blade of choice.

 

[Will'em]

Originally posted by Bladeswinger

Originally posted by TomW
It is just a fashion.
The tanto is good for almost nothing.
It is not best at anything,
It is human nature to buy things we like then look for reasons to justify .
Why not just buy it because we like it?
Does it have to be superior at anything?
Not for me. I own a few just because they look and feel good to me.
My only justification

Wow, I see someone doesn't know the reason a tanto style blade has been around for centuries!! See Japan's history and the reasons why the tanto is their blade of choice.

I had no idea the Americanized tanto point predates America

 

[Crayola]

Allow me to offer some responses to your3 points Alarion, in favor of the tanto:

1) The tanto tip isn't a tanto tip. Well, yeah, it isn't a traditional tanto tip. But that's o.k.! The name is just a name, and doesn't affect performance at all We import many words from other cultures and "adopt" or "modify" them for our needs. Mokume is another good one. Mokume meand wood grain! When peopel say Mokume, they mean mokume gane. Gane is the name for the metal, mokume is the name for the effect. So all of these people buying/selling/asking for mokume are asking for wood grain! Mokume sounds better, and thats the word we have adopted. Just like "tanto". The japanese tanto is where Phil Hartsfeld, Lynn Tompson, Bob Lum, and others got the idea from, so I think of the American Tanto name as acknowledging influence. But hey, "tanto" has nothing to do with tips anyways! Tanto means a blade within a certain length that has full battle furniture! Bob Engnath wrote in an article that most "tantos" out there made by western guys aren't tantos at all! THey are aikuchi, yori toshi, etc. You really only have a tanto when your knife is under a foot long and has a guard and other furniture. SOG Tsunami tanto isn't a tanto then!

2 and 3) Both of these questions deal with the cutting and stabbing abilities of the american tanto. Whether or not the profile works depends on (1) the condistions under whicha blade is to be used, and (2) user experience/tastes. On conditions, I would agree that an Applegate/Fairbairn dagger will penetrate my tummy way more easily than a Cold Steel Recon Tanto! But I usually wear t-shirts or other easily penetrable clothing. But what if you stab at me, I duck, and your blade strikes a brick wall? The tanto tip has a higher "survivability rate" than the A/F dagger! In the urban jungle, survivability may not be all that important. But for soldiers, this becomes VERY important. Enemy soldiers may have all kinds of tough web gear, magazines, other weapons, body armour, etc. A tanto tip striking a metal magazine will have a higher chance of coming out in one piece than a thinly ground clip point. So there are lots of cases where tanto tips would be preferred! The urban jungle, however, may not be one of them.

And that brings us to user preference. I had 2 tantos. It took me a while to figure out how to use them, but I did! I loved using my tanto tip to sharpen pencils. The secondary point was a great thing for opening boxes too. I agree that with most tantos, fine point work is difficult to do. But some have learned how to use the tip to get by with fine tip work. I usually have my SAK and another blade on me, and I use the SAK for fine work, so a tanto tip's lack of fine tip workability wouldn't be a problem for me. And after all this is said and done, one may still just not like them! And that is just fine too. I think it is better (in many everyday cases) for someoen to use a tool they like and are comfortable with, than to force themselves to use something they don't like. You won't see me with wild recurves! Even if they slice like mad.

I think the main reason people may have a hard time seeing the utility in something si that they look at it from their own perspective. In the urban jungle, a user may not need the advantages of a tanto tip, and it may actually be a bad profile given a tanto tip not being the best choice for fine tip work. Change the perspective though, and you can see how some may need those advantages. Greg Walker is in the sandbox right now, and he posted on a thread in prac tac that the Strider Tanto he has is almost the perfect fighting/combat knife. I am sure he appreciates how tough the knife is, and has found it to work well for his needs.

 

[Rifter]

I can and have stabbed a CS tanto into a wall before and into a rock, lets see you do that with a thin hollow ground clip point(such as a the ever popular and wide used Buck 110) and tell me what happens. Oh wait I know what happens, i did this with a friends old beat up 110 just cause i wanted to see what happened, it snapped about 1" off the point when i gave it a full powered stab into a rock, looks like you are DEAD if you need your knife to survive. Tanto's have there uses, for a EDC they suck i agree, they are not very utility friendly knives but they DO have a purpose. For the ability to survive pretty much anyhting and still be in one piece they really cant be beat just due to the super thick point.

 

[tallwingedgoat]

This is a traditional Japanese tanto blade:

This is a chokuto, an ancient sword design that predates the katana:

Perhaps the American tanto should really be called the "chokuto" point?

 

[Rifter]

I agree there is a BIG differnce between a japanese tanto and a american tanto and was referring to the american tanto in my post, the japanese tanto is actually very useful.

 

[Ankerson]

I can and have stabbed a CS tanto into a wall before and into a rock, lets see you do that with a thin hollow ground clip point(such as a the ever popular and wide used Buck 110) and tell me what happens.

Very good point there..The CS Tanto's are very tough, the point is extremely hard to break....I have had one for 15 years...(5 3/4")...

The point might not be the very best when stabbing, but it will penetrate, believe me and the curved Blade works very well for slashing.

 

[Robert Marotz]

Chokuto, while fairly general in itself is actually a somewhat-abused name, now being referred to any straight sword. I guess that comes from the anti-ninjato argument.

However some of the old archaic swords like chokuto had tips that are somewhat reminiscent of that of modern tanto. I believe the name is kamasu-kissaki, but it is still not designed to penetrate really.

The most effective armor piercers in Japanese arsenal were actually called armor-piercers, yoroi-doshi. They were very stout tanto, often with more pronounced distal taper than typically found. Normally they were the standard hira-zukuri shape (like the top one tallwingedgoat posted), but quite thick (up to 1/2" at the machi).

Cray: about people making "hamidashi" or "aikuchi" and not "tanto," remember that terms like aikuchi, yoroi-doshi, hamidashi, etc were subcategories of tanto. Tanto in itself is actually quite a broad term! It is not like "wakizashi" or "katana" or "handachi" or other specific sword types, but rather more like a size category like shoto or daito. Katana and tachi are both daito, just as hamidashi and aikuchi are both tanto.

And for people who don't recognize the terms, hamidashi has a rather small tsuba/guard that doesn't protrude out far like those of bigger swords, and an aikuchi doesn't really have a guard at all.

I think it's OK that it's called a tanto. It meets the size guideline for tanto, if that's the big thing. The only thing wrong is when people want to buy or make what they think to be traditional without knowing the difference. I think it's good though that people are posting pics to show what old tanto looked like. That is probably the best method for showing how different the geo-tantos look from traditional pieces.

 

[cutty]

Tanto points are great for scraping gaskets off
flanges and things like that. every blade has it's
job.

 

[ExamonLyf]

Fun discussion guys..., lots of interesting points, and also somewhat educational....thanks!


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