Codger_64
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- Joined
- Oct 8, 2004
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When I look at a new knife, the first thing I see is the packaging. In any area of product marketing, the design of the package can make or break a sale, so it is important to have a design that conveys confidence in the product, identifies both the product and it’s manufacturer, and by law, the country of origin. I recently was duped by a fuzzy oblique picture and vague description on ebay, and wound up buying an imported version of a venerable Imperial Schrade 152OT Sharpfinger knife. As I promised, here is the honest examination and review.
The clampack package art does closely resemble a real Schrade clampack, such that an unknowledgeable clerk or potential customer might mistakenly believe it to be an original American made Imperial Schrade. Near the top of the card even has the image of an American flag on it to help confuse the buyer. The bottom of the card does have the importer’s name on it, Taylor Brands, LLC. Only on the bottom back of the card in 1/16" lettering do the words "Made in China" appear. The card itself is a very close approximation of the Imperial Schrade cards, with all of the same front design graphic elements, albeit rearranged for more compact packaging for both shipping and display, and of course the deletion of the “Made In U.S.A.” text below the American flag. So my first impression of clampack on eBay was that it contained a U.S. product, and the seller didn’t say otherwise. My mistake because I did not ask before placing a last minute bid, based entirely upon the picture. When asked immediately afterward, he openly told me that it was in fact a Chinese knife.
As many of you know, I am not a novice in the realm of Imperial Schrade knives, and have examined many Schrade knife patterns, and some of the Taylor imported Chinese copies. I have a fair sized collection of mostly Schrade fixed blade knives, have handled hundreds more, and have more than ten variants of this particular pattern in my collection. While I am by no means an expert on them, I have owned and used them since at least the mid seventies, and spent many hours examining the pattern in minute detail, and written a fairly in-depth paper on them, to my knowledge the most detailed report written to date on this particular pattern.
Opening the clampack, I examine the information insert. The insert is a revamped copy of an original Schrade insert, but did give the name of the importer and a mailing address for the limited lifetime warranty claim. It is triplicated to comply with the NAFTA three language rule, English, Spanish, and French. Evidently a different insert and box is used for domestic sales in China. Nowhere on the insert is a country of origin identified, or the knife materials and construction specified. It does call the sheath “genuine leather sheath” and refers to treating it “like you would any other fine leather item”. It is neither of these things, at best a “faux leather sheath-like object”. Nowhere in the insert is the type of blade steel mentioned, but it is a fair guess that it is some sort of stainless.
Next we see the sheath just mentioned. About what I had come to expect from seeing and handling the other TBLLC sheaths, and not really what I would expect from an American made Schrade sheath. The pattern of the sheath is a close approximation of the later Imperial Schrade 152OT Sharpfinger sheath. So close that it is obvious that a NOS original was exported for making the leather blanking die. Sheath color is medium russet, and what probably would have been a smooth glossy finish has been dulled down by imprinting a fine pebble texture. I understand it was intended to give a natural "grain" appearance, but it comes off looking like molded plastic because of it’s too consistent stippling.. Sheath material thickness approximates the original, and the top of the side stitching has been simply doubled on stitch, cut off on the front, an melted to prevent fraying. Looks like a cub scout kit project. The sheath material is not “Genuine Top Grain Cowhide”, or any other natural leather product that I have ever seen, but reconstitutes leather scrap, a pulp and binder concoction. This explains the imprinted grain appearance of the top surface. The snap on the handle keeper strap is impressed "SCHRADE" as were a few of the originals. One may speculate whether the hardware is stainless, nickle silver, or chromed steel, but stainless is my own best guess. It snaps closed easily enough, perhaps too easy for a brand new sheath. It makes me think that the interference fit is too loose, and with the least wear, the snap will fail to keep the strap securely closed around the knife. While I would by no means call the sheath "handsome", it also does not appear to be very durable. Cheap is the best word to describe the look and feel. I question it’s survivability for even short term usage.
The knife blade is a very close approximation of the original as well. Blade right has a tangstamp "SCHRADE" on the choil read from the handle, and on the left "152OT, also read from the handle. These positions and markings are different than Imperial Schrade production Sharpfinger knives, and familiarity with them should ward off any attempt at fakery if..,.unlike myself, you insist on seeing a clear picture of the stamp yourself, or buy from a trusted seller.. On blade right there is a large "SCHRADE" over "super sharp" etch which the new owner of the brand names seem to have favored on the “first production run” fixed blade Chinese knives made in 2005, which this one was. There is a tiny (3/8") left blade etch of the cutler with hammer and anvil, wording "Schrade" over "China 05".
No where on the knife does Taylor Brands LLC claim maker status. Once the box is tossed and the light left side blade etch is worn away (or removed by a counterfeiter), there will be no identification of country of origin on the knife.
Slight nuances in the details of the grind certainly spell a difference in what I have come to expect from Imperial Schrade originals. The primary grind and buff did not leave the "wavy" appearance which I had seen on the larger blades, but they did revert to the plain, or flat grind of the 1974-2000 ISC production knives, instead of the hollow grind adopted for the later originals. The buff is a fine satin vertical finish, rather nicely done and uniform. The final grind is much better than expected after examining the other TBLLC imported copies, such as the 15OT. The grind ends with a smooth taper at the choil, and is applied evenly on the two sides. The “fingernail test”, running the nail down the length of the blade reveals some minor roughness, a few small nicks, but most user sharpening and polishing will remove these manufacturing defects. The side edges of the thumb rest on top of the choil are a bit sharper than the original, but not uncomfortably so. The lower choil extension forming the guard could have used some more corner finish buffing as well. The edges were left nearly square, and the lower point of the choil left at nearly a right angle, unlike the original which were slightly radiused for comfort, not just to rid the perimeter of burrs from the blanking process.
The handle is a bit better fit than the 15OT copy. Unlike the handle on that pattern copy, the only area where the exposed tang is left proud on this copy is on the butt, overall a much better fit. The original flat stamped Old Timer nickle silver shield was replaced with a nickle silver coined shield approximately the same shape, with a "rope" border. I think it was a copy of a "Schrade Classic" shield. The handle compression rivets are set well below flush, but this is a problem I have noticed on a few of the originals. What id do see that I’ve not seen on originals is flash, or drilling scrap protruding out from under the rivets. The rivets themselves are not bad appearing items, though the originals never used “machine spun” heads like these. This, In my opinion is a good thing in spite of their odd appearance. It is another way for knowledgeable collectors to tell the difference between an original and a copy. I question also the actual handle material. Bi-colored as it should be (though entirely different colors from the originals), I would rate the handle fit as better done that the other pattern copies I have examined.
My overall impression of this knife is not good, even ignoring the sheath, the packaging, the purloining of Henry Baer’s design, and my personal aversion to items from this particular country of origin. It quite simply could have been done better. And in fact has been since 1974. I will say that this knife makes me look forward to the examining the American manufacturer efforts to revive this now classic thirtytwo year old knife pattern that I have used for most of those years! Given the choice between this TBLLC knife and the Camillus GP152, I’d choose the Camillus every time for fit and finish. Luckily, a large number of original Sharpfingers remain on the market in new and excellent used condition. You can expect to pay two to three times the price of a TBLLC copy for a new ISC 152OT, or the same to twice for an excellent used ISC 15OT, but to me there is enough difference to merit the few dollars more. Especially when you figure having to buy a real ISC or Camillus sheath after the knife purchase of a TBLLC copy.
Codger
The clampack package art does closely resemble a real Schrade clampack, such that an unknowledgeable clerk or potential customer might mistakenly believe it to be an original American made Imperial Schrade. Near the top of the card even has the image of an American flag on it to help confuse the buyer. The bottom of the card does have the importer’s name on it, Taylor Brands, LLC. Only on the bottom back of the card in 1/16" lettering do the words "Made in China" appear. The card itself is a very close approximation of the Imperial Schrade cards, with all of the same front design graphic elements, albeit rearranged for more compact packaging for both shipping and display, and of course the deletion of the “Made In U.S.A.” text below the American flag. So my first impression of clampack on eBay was that it contained a U.S. product, and the seller didn’t say otherwise. My mistake because I did not ask before placing a last minute bid, based entirely upon the picture. When asked immediately afterward, he openly told me that it was in fact a Chinese knife.
As many of you know, I am not a novice in the realm of Imperial Schrade knives, and have examined many Schrade knife patterns, and some of the Taylor imported Chinese copies. I have a fair sized collection of mostly Schrade fixed blade knives, have handled hundreds more, and have more than ten variants of this particular pattern in my collection. While I am by no means an expert on them, I have owned and used them since at least the mid seventies, and spent many hours examining the pattern in minute detail, and written a fairly in-depth paper on them, to my knowledge the most detailed report written to date on this particular pattern.
Opening the clampack, I examine the information insert. The insert is a revamped copy of an original Schrade insert, but did give the name of the importer and a mailing address for the limited lifetime warranty claim. It is triplicated to comply with the NAFTA three language rule, English, Spanish, and French. Evidently a different insert and box is used for domestic sales in China. Nowhere on the insert is a country of origin identified, or the knife materials and construction specified. It does call the sheath “genuine leather sheath” and refers to treating it “like you would any other fine leather item”. It is neither of these things, at best a “faux leather sheath-like object”. Nowhere in the insert is the type of blade steel mentioned, but it is a fair guess that it is some sort of stainless.
Next we see the sheath just mentioned. About what I had come to expect from seeing and handling the other TBLLC sheaths, and not really what I would expect from an American made Schrade sheath. The pattern of the sheath is a close approximation of the later Imperial Schrade 152OT Sharpfinger sheath. So close that it is obvious that a NOS original was exported for making the leather blanking die. Sheath color is medium russet, and what probably would have been a smooth glossy finish has been dulled down by imprinting a fine pebble texture. I understand it was intended to give a natural "grain" appearance, but it comes off looking like molded plastic because of it’s too consistent stippling.. Sheath material thickness approximates the original, and the top of the side stitching has been simply doubled on stitch, cut off on the front, an melted to prevent fraying. Looks like a cub scout kit project. The sheath material is not “Genuine Top Grain Cowhide”, or any other natural leather product that I have ever seen, but reconstitutes leather scrap, a pulp and binder concoction. This explains the imprinted grain appearance of the top surface. The snap on the handle keeper strap is impressed "SCHRADE" as were a few of the originals. One may speculate whether the hardware is stainless, nickle silver, or chromed steel, but stainless is my own best guess. It snaps closed easily enough, perhaps too easy for a brand new sheath. It makes me think that the interference fit is too loose, and with the least wear, the snap will fail to keep the strap securely closed around the knife. While I would by no means call the sheath "handsome", it also does not appear to be very durable. Cheap is the best word to describe the look and feel. I question it’s survivability for even short term usage.
The knife blade is a very close approximation of the original as well. Blade right has a tangstamp "SCHRADE" on the choil read from the handle, and on the left "152OT, also read from the handle. These positions and markings are different than Imperial Schrade production Sharpfinger knives, and familiarity with them should ward off any attempt at fakery if..,.unlike myself, you insist on seeing a clear picture of the stamp yourself, or buy from a trusted seller.. On blade right there is a large "SCHRADE" over "super sharp" etch which the new owner of the brand names seem to have favored on the “first production run” fixed blade Chinese knives made in 2005, which this one was. There is a tiny (3/8") left blade etch of the cutler with hammer and anvil, wording "Schrade" over "China 05".
No where on the knife does Taylor Brands LLC claim maker status. Once the box is tossed and the light left side blade etch is worn away (or removed by a counterfeiter), there will be no identification of country of origin on the knife.
Slight nuances in the details of the grind certainly spell a difference in what I have come to expect from Imperial Schrade originals. The primary grind and buff did not leave the "wavy" appearance which I had seen on the larger blades, but they did revert to the plain, or flat grind of the 1974-2000 ISC production knives, instead of the hollow grind adopted for the later originals. The buff is a fine satin vertical finish, rather nicely done and uniform. The final grind is much better than expected after examining the other TBLLC imported copies, such as the 15OT. The grind ends with a smooth taper at the choil, and is applied evenly on the two sides. The “fingernail test”, running the nail down the length of the blade reveals some minor roughness, a few small nicks, but most user sharpening and polishing will remove these manufacturing defects. The side edges of the thumb rest on top of the choil are a bit sharper than the original, but not uncomfortably so. The lower choil extension forming the guard could have used some more corner finish buffing as well. The edges were left nearly square, and the lower point of the choil left at nearly a right angle, unlike the original which were slightly radiused for comfort, not just to rid the perimeter of burrs from the blanking process.
The handle is a bit better fit than the 15OT copy. Unlike the handle on that pattern copy, the only area where the exposed tang is left proud on this copy is on the butt, overall a much better fit. The original flat stamped Old Timer nickle silver shield was replaced with a nickle silver coined shield approximately the same shape, with a "rope" border. I think it was a copy of a "Schrade Classic" shield. The handle compression rivets are set well below flush, but this is a problem I have noticed on a few of the originals. What id do see that I’ve not seen on originals is flash, or drilling scrap protruding out from under the rivets. The rivets themselves are not bad appearing items, though the originals never used “machine spun” heads like these. This, In my opinion is a good thing in spite of their odd appearance. It is another way for knowledgeable collectors to tell the difference between an original and a copy. I question also the actual handle material. Bi-colored as it should be (though entirely different colors from the originals), I would rate the handle fit as better done that the other pattern copies I have examined.
My overall impression of this knife is not good, even ignoring the sheath, the packaging, the purloining of Henry Baer’s design, and my personal aversion to items from this particular country of origin. It quite simply could have been done better. And in fact has been since 1974. I will say that this knife makes me look forward to the examining the American manufacturer efforts to revive this now classic thirtytwo year old knife pattern that I have used for most of those years! Given the choice between this TBLLC knife and the Camillus GP152, I’d choose the Camillus every time for fit and finish. Luckily, a large number of original Sharpfingers remain on the market in new and excellent used condition. You can expect to pay two to three times the price of a TBLLC copy for a new ISC 152OT, or the same to twice for an excellent used ISC 15OT, but to me there is enough difference to merit the few dollars more. Especially when you figure having to buy a real ISC or Camillus sheath after the knife purchase of a TBLLC copy.
Codger
