Tell me if it's for real

seaplane

seaplane

Joined
Jun 25, 2000
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680
Been wanting the Big Wrangler for awhile. I did some searching here over the past couple of months and saw some posts in regards to whether the large quanity of 307's that appeared out of the mist were for real or not? I decided to go for one anyway. Just got it in and after looking over the packaging and the knife, I'm thinking I got myself a pretty hefty folder and I am happy with it, But is it the real Mcoy or as some folks might say, a put together pile of left over parts from some contractor from overseas?
The shield is slightly unflush with the handle and looks a little odd to me.The hammer and knife logo just look a little odd,But I am no expert.
The fit and finish seem to be decent, But I don't have anything to compare it to other than an older 301. The pivot rivets are a little more noticeable than I would think they should be, But that may be standard? The packaging is another thing that might be OK or might not be. It has the warranty paperwork with the El Cajun address on it. The box is one I haven't ever seen before with every side being a different cattegory of Buck knive,For example one side has "Outdoor" one side say's "Tacticle" one side says"Hunting fishing" and the 4th side has "everyday" on it. The end flap says Cat#2589.
How about the blade tang stamp? It has no year stamp, so does that mean it's a pre-86? Does the stamping look authentic? I'm hoping my pics can show enough to tell. Anyway, with all that said, I wanted to post pics to garner opinions and maybe help someone else decide if they were on the fence on one of these knives. It's going to be treated like a Red headed step child, so I will see how good of an edge it holds and if it is worth it's namesake, even if it is a Camillus leftover pile of parts or a chinese complete knockoff or the real deal!

MVC-004F by seaplane1, on Flickr

MVC-005F by seaplane1, on Flickr

MVC-006F by seaplane1, on Flickr

MVC-007F by seaplane1, on Flickr

MVC-008F by seaplane1, on Flickr

MVC-009F by seaplane1, on Flickr

MVC-010F by seaplane1, on Flickr
 
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I can tell you that the box design was used starting in 2001, I don't know when they changed from it. If you do a search, you will find several sprited discussions about those 307's. I have a couple and I see nothing to lead me to believe that they are phony but there a skeptics that feel different.
 
If comparing by visuals to mine, which I purchased new in the early 90's from Fredricksburg Hardware (Va), yours looks right as rain. I couldn't comment on the box though it looks like the knife is spot on.
 
Nobody knows for sure. Some said they were perfect fakes made in China, some said they were made up from cobbled-together parts bought up at the Camillius auction, some said they were real.......and there was at least one other story that I can't remember.

Seems like it doesn't really make any difference if there's no consensus and they look good enough to pass.

I don't know of ANY that were actually identified as fake, and I'm pretty sure we'd have heard about it here if there had been.

:)
 
It looks real to me. Just like mine, save for the 'mileage' on mine. ;) Especially the pivot pins, a little more 'visible' than might be found on other knives. Mine has carbon springs, which have taken a rather nice patina (pic below; it's a bit darker now, since that pic was taken). You might watch for that on yours, although I've no idea if they were all done that way.

Here's mine, for comparison's sake:
 
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Here you go fellas, take no prisoners but get real,

Heck yes they are real Model 307 Wranglers. There are some that come in some odd boxes but, heck fire you see that on the bay all the time with miss matched boxes on knives you know were made in the 1980s.. Are some up for sale currently from assembled parts from the Camillus close down ? Heck fire yes. I was told by a ex-Camillus, well thought of in the knife world fella, that yup a person who knew how to put them together from past job experince bought the parts and was doing so till their the supply was used up...they did that with that big jigged bone trapper also.....Are they real Buck knives ? As real as any other Buck made by Camillus, i.e. parts from the Camillus factory, made up by former Camillus employee. Thats good enough for me. Made across the ocean ? Nope. Thats the deal as I see it, in my world they are Wranglers...... case closed.

300Bucks

PS They all had carbon springs. Pivots stick out, some more some less, because of craftsmanship or lack of it. ch
 
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I am no expert, but it appears to be the gen-u-wine thing. Looks just like mine from the early 70's. I'd say use it like it was meant to be and not worry about it! Short of using it for a pry bar it'll get the cutting chores done.
 
I havent seen/heard of any 307 knockoffs yet. IMHO the one you got is 100% real. If it was made from left over parts by a guy that used to work for Camillus, where did he get the correctly labeled box? When Camillus shipped knives to us, they were bulk packaged. We unpacked, inspected, and boxed them up at the Buck factory. Most of the time, they can be found in a small clear plastic bag inside the Buck box.
I defer to 300Bucks in regards to what he has been able to find out about knives made by Camillus after they went out of business. To be honest, I would think that those knives are in a separate and somewhat collectible category all by themselves. I am also wondering/hoping that as they start to run low on parts, they might start making "new" models like say, a 321 Bird knife with only the hook or a 317 Trail Blazer with 2 main blades. Could get interesting!
 
I got one of those shortly after the Camillus auction, when they flooded Ebay. (the timing on this, has always made me suspect they were either leftovers at the Camillus factory or parts)

Never seen a hint of anything that would say it's not exactly what 300bucks said above, when comparing it to other 307's, or comparing it to my Camillus branded jumbo stockman made in the 90's. (except for the tang stamps and shields, you cannot tell them apart)

307-Camillusclone.jpg
 
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Of course, I will always defer to Joe,so we are at a stalemate....

I don't feel right throwing out the Camillus named person and won't here. Joe's point is vaild but do you notice that on a particular sellers bay offering of multiple 307s, many of the boxes are the same era design and color . As Bear Claw suggests maybe just old stockpile.????? The end of the box shown in first post above appears to be a 2000 dated issue sticker, but the 307 was not in the 2000 catalog or price list and was gone from the catalogs in 98. ????

Other 307s have been offered in 'normal' boxes, some without boxes at all. Some are true old models and some are new parts, who cares. They are all good large stockman with Buck on the blades. Anyone remember seeing a few knives with shields stamped deeply and differently than past, BUCK. That seller finally said to me that they were special assembled knives. Haven't seen one in a while now. If they had the old knife, bolt and hammer , I would have never contacted them. I think Joe would agree with the fact that Buck stuff shows up in odd situations and locations all the time.

What I am trying to say is that the rumor of Chinese knock-offs in invalid. If you want to discuss are knives made of leftover Camillus parts assembled correctly and fully, Buck knives, then have at it. But let me give you a made up situation and you can see how things apply. If I had some old broken down 301s, 303s or 307s and I was willing to pay Leroy to tear them apart and make as many good knives as possible out of the pile then would they be - REAL - Buck knives ??? Because Leroy was involved I would guess everyone would say yes. But no matter, they would be real Bucks. Whatever the number of after Camillus knives there are the only difference in them is that they didn't go to Buck for QC and boxing. If quality is fine then they are fine.
What ever the origin, every single one I have handled and seen in close-up photos, including the ones in the old same era boxes, were good ole 307 Wranglers. Get them while there hot cause when there gone they are gone.

Joe and I did not get to talk about this at the Blade Show, you just can't hit every nail as so much is going on around you while there.
I think he agrees with this statement for certain " If you get or have one, everyone just relax and enjoy your REAL 307 Wrangler"

Now if someone comes up with one with a serrated blade claiming it is factory original I will look with squinted eyes and clenched teeth......
300Bucks
 
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Thanks for all the info folks! Also thanks for posting those pics. Me and my new Wrangler had lunch together this afternoon. I started working on the clip point edge and am interested in seeing how it holds up once I get it where I want it . I think it would be cool to see Buck bring the Wrangler back home and maybe upgrade it with some comfort craft bolsters! I appreciate you all taking the time to put to rest the fears of the counterfeit 307. I have seen some real looking fakes on everything from watches to Randall Made knives. I like to go with the old saying "Buy the seller" when it comes to high dollar items, But since the 307 is out of production, I had to go with an unknown dealer to get one of these. Of course it's only $40 !
 
I'm so glad you guys can get along over this one! There must have been some very dry martinis exchanged at that Blade Show. ;) ;) DM
 
I understand David,

Joe and I stand as a united front. They are all 307 Buck knives......The rest is just BS for nice dis-cussion on something besides warranty issues.......~(;-} 300

307Fourshot.jpg


No Drooling......old custom shop work.
Stag307.jpg
 
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Uh....am I missing something here 300Bucks? If the 307's are a Camillus product, what's with the smooth black handled one with the "BUCK" shield and not the hammer and anvil shield? Wasn't the "BUCK" shield used when they first brought production of some of the pocket knives inhouse? Camillus wouldn't have that shield would they?
Inquiring mind here.....
 
Just what we like to discuss a real knife question.

Check out 300 series made with date stamps from 1986,87,88 and a few in 1989 and you will be in the BUCK shield era. Buck took over the production of the 301, 303, 309 and 305 from Camillus. The 307 and various other models remained at Camillus until they were dropped. The 307 went on until the late 90's. A slim few were made by Camillus with the offical BUCK shield, like the ones on the above mentioned years Buck production models. The knife pictured is a sawcut, not smooth, has the 86 - 88 shield which is slightly stamped and inked in the stamping. BUT, there is no way to note date of production, other than -likely- the mid to late 80s. We Buck knife people griped we didn't like the shield change and the way it was made led to the ink wearing off in the pocket quickly and Buck went back to the knife,bolt and hammer shield. The Yellow scale is a special order via Camillus, from SMKWs, offered only in their catalog and not sold by Buck in its catalog. In every case from beginning to end, Buck did not make the steel used in the 307, Camillus provided all metal in all models and years.
Do a 307 search on fourm, I am sure we have gone over all of this in minute detaill in past.....for those with access there is a 307 history on the BCCI website............300

Here is a old, different angle photo. Maybe sawcut shows up better.
Buck307.jpg

This is a actual box used to ship 300 series knives to Buck. They were inspected and reboxed by Buck. This one is marked 311.
Box-1.jpg
 
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OK, thanks. The knife looked smooth in the picture. I'll do a search on that also.

P.S.....I see now that the reason I havn't found my Idaho 303 yet is that you pigged 2....;o)
 
yes, I knew you were going to say that so I changed the photo.....ha The first one got lonesome..... There are a couple of other 300 cutthroats around also. 300
 
I notice now in the picture that the Buck shield is even shaped different than the hammer shield. I wouldn't have thought Camillus would have bothered.
 
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