Temperance Trainer/Riddle of Steel

Mike Sastre

Mike Sastre

Custom Crafted Concealex Sheaths
Joined
Mar 23, 1999
Messages
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Just wanted to thank Sal, on behalf of all the Riddlers, for his fine gift of the Temperance Trainers to all attendees of this year's Riddle of Steel. Mr. Glesser is a Riddler himself, and definitely understands what we put these through. THANKS for ALL your help, Sal!!!
 
So, has Keating been promoting the use of the Temperance? I've been carrying mine IWB for a while and like it a lot.
 
Sal,

They worked out fine (see lunumbra's post), and were used all weekend by most of the guys. Carry was split between upright on the side and inverted towards the back. A couple guys even had matching red sheaths for them. ;)
 
Originally posted by ElectricZombie
So, has Keating been promoting the use of the Temperance? I've been carrying mine IWB for a while and like it a lot.
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Not specifically . . . He did call the Temperence, "a good unit" and it does meet a lot of the criteria that he suggests you look for in a small sheath knife. One of the best things about it, is the matching trainer, always a HUGE bonus in my book.

Lunumbra
 
Originally posted by dialex
Please forgive my ignorance, but what's the "Riddle of Steel"?
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Riddle of Steel is a long weekend of training with James Keating. It takes place (traditionally) WAY up the Snake River Canyon, beautiful territory. (There have been a couple at other locations.) One of the most prestigious training events in the country.

Lunumbra
 
Hi, appreciate your taking the time to comment. I would be interested in your opinions about what would help bring the design closer to it's design philosophy.

I've noticed that each of the really skilled in the MBC world have their own concept (design philosophy) about what is the ideal knife. Each is correct even though they are all different.

James has his "idealized image" in his mind as does Michael on his. They are both beautiful ecxamples of what peeling back the onion of refinement in this area provides. Tarani keeps alive and evolves the sprit of the Karambit. The blossom is extraordinary. Bram's concepts of "kinetics" and "non lethal force designed into the form" are quite new and will evolve the "knife". Lynn Thompson, Ayoob, deBethencourt...et al.

Each refinement exemplifies the individual "style". All beautiful in their own evolution. Like a language. "No best, All good, just different".

The "design philophy" behind the Temperance was the "absolute compropmise". Mowgli's tooth. You have one knife (less weight). You are outside. What will it be used for? mostly food preparation? (including skinning), other possibilities include fire building, defense against human, animal or natural snare. Everday living outside. You are going outside and you are taking only one knife.

Trying to find the optimum in each area; size, blade shape, edge shape, handle funtions, materials, grinds, etc. caused many "back and forths".

The "Chopper" has some real points in clearing and cleaning, 10 in 10. But rates low in the hauling weight and the functions that will be used most of the time. The smaller blade did the chopping better than the larger blade did the everyday tasks.

Handle must be secure for any aplication. Food prep needs good slicing, defense needs penetration and slashing. The knife must be small enough to do the small chores like carving. Handle material material needs to survive easily outdoors with no maintenance. Must be tough, but not at the cost of performing the other tasks. Must be affordable and be excellent value for the money spent (That's a big chunk of an awsome steel). The perfect balance.

The design is a "work in progress" and will no doubt evolve over the years. I would like to add more grip to the handled but haven't yet decided which route to go (kraton, texture, etc). Any thoughts that you can share that would help this model evolve would be appreciated.

Sending the samples to the Riddle ensured that they would get a decent test and I could get somed valuable feedback. James' feedback will be most valuable, But, remember the goal. This is not the ideal MBC only knife, (although the penetration and slashing ability of the blade design would impress) or the best camp knife. The design goal is "the optimum balance in the outdoor knife".

sal
 
Originally posted by Sal Glesser
. . . I would like to add more grip to the handled but haven't yet decided which route to go (kraton, texture, etc). Any thoughts that you can share that would help this model evolve would be appreciated. . .

sal
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That is actually the only comment that I have on the design. It could have a little more grip. Hatching on the thumb ramp and/or the butt? Slightly smaller handle so it would be easier to get your hand ALL the way around . . .I don't know. You obviously have ideas, I'll eagerly await version 2.

Lunumbra

P.S. I love the blade design.:)
 
Thumbramp on the live blades already has the cross hatching, blade shape is very good for an all purpose knife, and the handle has some great ergonomics, but might be a littly more grippy and maybe just very slightly thinner. While I don't have trouble with blade manipulation drills with the Temperance (great dimples), most people find it easier with flatter handles, but this is just from the MBC side. Handle shape is very well thought out, with the "bird's beak" back end allowing a good catch and pivot point for chopping, and a great groove for "capping" a reverse grip. I've been impressed with the Temperance since first handling the prototype, and think for a "one size fits all" knife, you've pretty much hit the mark. Serrated version is an awesome cutter!!!
 
Newbie comment:

I´ve used the Temperance trainer for a while now and while I´m only a beginner in Pekiti Tirsia Kali I have owned and used knives since I was six years old, I have a suggestion.

Sal, you mentioned that you wanted to add some more grip to the handle. You mentioned Kraton. I´ve noticed some things about Kraton that I really don´t like. First thing is that it makes my hand tired faster than if I use a knife that doesn´t have a Kraton grip. I guess it´s because of the "squishiness" that demand more grip power when I handle heavier cutting tasks or use it for extended periods. I made this observation while using my old Cold Steel Outdoorsman. I also believe I´ve read some posts about this problem from BF members in other threads. This problem might be taken care of by making some kind of recessions in the handle like the FB Perrin you sell.

The second problem with Kraton is that it doesn´t only stick to your hand but to everything else that it comes into contact with. It´s a sort of "active stickiness". If you try to carry a FB Perrin IWB and have a college shirt covering it trying to do a fast draw. You lift up the shirt and maybe once out of 10-20 the knife pops up together with the shirt. After closer examination of my draw process I noticed that the knife handle sometimes get caught by the shirt. More precisly the Kraton gets a hold of the shirt if the handle is caught in a fold or if the shirt is in contact with the upper body while lifted. Sure, I can train to avoid that the shirt touches the knife but if I´m doing a fast draw it will happen sometimes even if I try to avoid it. That´s also just the shirt, what about other clothing?

If the handle has texture which I would call a more "passive stickiness" it wouldn´t catch as easily on different clothing. Although there would be added grip because of the texture when you have it where it belongs, in your hand ready for use. Also it would avoid the problem I´ve experienced with grip fatigue.

That´s why I believe some kind of texture would be a better choice compared to the Kraton. Otherwise the handle is perfect for me sizewise and I really like the dimples.

My thoughts on the Temperance:
When I first got the knife I didn´t like the blade. It felt like it had an upside down profile of a kitchen knife. I thought to myself why not make the cutting edge start sooner by making the blade wider. After training with it I noticed how good control you got while "cutting" your training partners arms. You know immediately where the cutting edge is without looking. You can "feel" where it is and where you cut. It took a while but now I´m beginning to understand the finer points with some of the not too obvious features on this knife. Like how the thumb ramp naturally can be used to trap your training partners arm.

The sheath is nice. I like the tension screw on the sheath for my live Temperance but I have a hard time finding a way to carry this knife as an EDC, except during the winter. The sheath combined with the handle makes it very bulky and I can´t wear it IWB without it printing. The only way I can see it carried would be in my shoulder holster or in a winter coats pocket. If the concealed carry problem could be covered I would certainly carry it more often.

A great value.

/Colinz
 
Sal,

The Temperance is one of my favorite fixedbblades so far. I do agree that it is a very universally appealing design with a multiple platform of uses.

As far as improvements go, Mine is based on my hand size. I'd like a slightly narrower or thinner handle, maintaining all that is already there.
I do appreciate your consideration for those in MBC curriculums that utilize the edge-in reverse grip orientation. Both the Perrin and Temperance do this very well.

Thanks,
Ken
 
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