tempering cable damascus

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Sep 6, 2002
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106
I just quenched and tempered a cable damascus blade made from utility pole
guy wire- I quenched it in water (the oil quench didn't seem to get it completely hardened) and tempered it at 400 for 1 hour. I am wondering now if 400 would be enough or is that on the low side? I can't find any info
on steel used in guy wires, so any input would be appreciated.
 
all the utility pole guy wire cables I've seen are galvanized, not good for forgeing, first off the galvanize will put off a poison gas that can kill you when brought up to forging heat. Next the steel used in this type of cable isn't high enough in carbon count. You need to get some good steel cable, like that used for elevators or other interior used cable. If you can locate a cable making company, you can probably get cut offs from them and they will be able to tell you the steel makeup used in making the cable. I believe that sheffield sells knife making cable.

Good luck and be careful

Bill
 
Bill- Thanks for the warning, but I avoided poisoning myself by removing the zinc with muriatic acid and had no problems after that. I guess there are different grades of guy wires used because the stuff Ive got hardens up quite well- in fact I'm still trying to find a supplier for it since it has large individual wires which reduces the decarb problem. However, I got the cable in an area with a lot of junk, not attached to a pole so it could be something else, but it looks exactly like guy wire and it had the same kind of bolt/clamps
that are used in my area for guy wires. Now that you've raised the question in my mind, I'm going to cut a short piece offthe loose end of one of the guy wires on one of the utility poles in my yard (finally a benefit from having them there!) and test it. I'll let you know how it turns out. I got lucky at the same place and picked up a discarded 1.25 in sling cable that's at least 20' long- (it was a bear getting it into the bed of my pickup) that's high carbon too- but thanks for the ideas on the cable cut-offs and the Sheffield stuff. I'll check those out.
 
On my cable blades, I do a 300 degree stress relief, then try the brass rod test and temper accordingly. Keep in mind that the weld "seams" are practically pure iron and can make the brass rod test an inaccurate guage of working hardness. It seems to work fine on blades forged from cable with large individual wires. The highest I've tempered a cable blade so far was 375 degrees.

Hope that helps.

Todd
 
Most Cable is 1095 steel and will harden in oil or water the oil should be heated to at least 130 degrees, up to 180 , higher heated oil will let the quench to go faster producing a harder blade ,, the slower the quench -- lower temp oil -the softer the blade ,
As you have already mentioned the weld seams are iron - the surface of the steel is at WELDING TEMP and MOLTEN theirby MAKING THE WELD POSSIBLE as a rule a 5% surface area becomes iron void of carbon - regardless of strain size , so most tend to use the larger size strand so they will be more visible when completed ,
I think the small strains have a place in a high performance blade and should not be over looked .
I feel that cable is a great steel and its nature is often over looked to be used as a high performance steel
first of all a weld of 5 % completely around a strand and each strand has this ,locking each to each other makes for a very stought blade --the locking system cant be beat - each strand holding WELDED to the next and when you consider the numbers of surface area locked together very strong
its like other steels, it takes a while to learn to weld no. 1 and then after that to learn to heat treat for your needs .
this is long already so I want go their ,
but I will tell what I do and hope it helps you
first its very important to get good cable as Bill Buxton as mentioned.
learn to weld solid --- if you think its solid take a few more welds to insure like at least 3
also temp at welding is very high and hard blows with the hammer will only drive all the 5 % welding material away and slow down the process --- SO LIGHT TAPS is needed to weld up ,take you time and do a good job .nothing harder than to find a void when grinding and having to lose all that work so weld it tight and solid .
after you certain that you have a good bar of steel forge it to shape ,forge in all the bevels if you like that long strand look on the sides of the blade if on the other hand you like the cell look forge bevels less so that more stock will be removed at finishing
what ever way you chose leave at least the thickness of a 1/8 or better on the edges,
I like the edge to be thick at heatreating so I want get warps remember you are heatreating each cell ,
as im forging the knife I very sure to keep every thing even , keep distal tapers even not thicker on one and not perfect but close bring blade up to none magnetic place in vermiculite or a few hours this will relieve all stresses brought about buy forging ,
clean up blade at grinder and grind to shape leaving room to clean up after heat treatment a little over 1/16 on the edge or better if you can the thicker the better ,
in the forging and welding you have heated the blade a large number of times ,cousing very large grain sizes in the blade which you need to change.
large grain will produce a weak blade to say the least ,
to reduce the grain you need to ( thermo cycle )
this is a very simple process and one that can not be over looked
No 1 bring the blade to none magnetic =====DO NOT GO OVER NONE MAG ==== as soon as mag turns lose let the blade cool to black witch is about 900 degrees I will wave it back and forth to cool in open air .
no2 repeat this process but this time bring blade to just below none mag when mag begins to get weak -- allow to cool to black in open air
no 3 repeat --- this will reduce grain size to a very fine size .
n0 4 bring blade to none magnetic and be sure not to go over check often and catch it as its turning lose or on the rise you will cause grain to grow again quench in oil at 130 ----180
do not move blade in oil or it will warp ;
check with a file to be sure it hardened is it did wipe oil off before it hardens the oil will slip off and its easer to clean up
temper blade in oven at 350 for 1 hour two times --- check on brass rod d its to hard go to 375 for one hour
sorry this is so long but if I can be of more help in confusing you let me know
and this is no means the only way to do this this is the way I have been doing it with great results .
 
Ron- thanks for the great explanation and link! The temper I did at 400 seems ok- I don't have any 1/4" brass rod so I used some 1/4" copper that I work hardened as much as I could and the blade edge deflected without taking a permanent bend, so for a first cable damascus blade I'm happy with it. Regarding wire size, I was refering to the fact that larger wires lose less of their total carbon in a given amount of time than smaller wires do (got that info from Wayne Goddard's book). I really appreciate the complete description of normalizing/heat cycling.
 
Bill- Last night I clipped of a small piece of wire from a guy wire on a pole in my yard and heated/quenched it, and sure enough, it got brittle hard just like the other stuff I've got. I test wire by bending the wire double on itself into a tight "U" shape and heat the bend and quench, and then pull the two ends away from each other as though I were trying to straighten the wire-
when I did that with the guy wire it snapped with very little effort. It goes to show that everything's gotta be tested- after that I grabbed some wire that I had tested before and thought was low-carbon, but after heating and quenching the same way, it snapped too.
I realize now that I hadn't got the wire hot enough when I tested it last time- I have found that wire will get hotter (or stay hot longer) if I double it up one or more times to get more thermal mass, as opposed to trying to heat a straight wire- but then I usually try doing it over the gas stove which doesn't heat very efficiently.
 
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