tempering in water or oil ?

A

ate1675

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Aug 19, 2013
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I have been tempering in my moms kitchen oven after quenching in canola oil,it works great except for her being annoyed that I even exist at all. I have other ideas of being able to hold temperature at 375 +,I have hot plates,and a deep fryer, can I leave blades ,one at a time, in oil or water or brine for "three two hour cycles" the same as I do in the oven inside a metal bread pan of sand that is equalized at my desired temp,that works well for me?Or does it need to be "air" that does the job?
 
You can't heat water under atmospheric pressure to above 212F, so that is out. Oil can be heated safely to 350-400°F, so it is possible. I know a couple guys who use a surplus deep fat fryer to do temper in. It works very well. As far as doing it in the home shop, a hot pan or can of oil is very dangerous, I would not do it. If you think your mom doesn't like you messing up the kitchen, think how she will feel if you burn the place down.

The trick for doing oven tempering is to clean the blade off well first. Wash in soap and water a couple times, then dry well. Place in the pre-heated oven right on the middle rack. Keep it there without peeking for one to two hours. Take out, cool off in running water in the sink, dry off, and put back in the oven for another hour or two. This won't smell and will take the least oven time.

An alternative for tempering is using a toaster oven. If you do this you want one from the thrift store. You will also want an inexpensive digital oven thermometer to track the temperature ( they are cheap at Kmart and other places), as the toaster ovens do not read accurately. Place a piece of 1/4" steel plate on the shelf. Place the knife blade, and the TC from the oven thermometer on the plate, and set another piece of 1/4" plate on that. This "sandwich" will even out the temperatures in the oven, and the TC will be reading what the actual knife blade temperature is. Turn the toaster oven on and set it to about 50° below what you want to temper the blade at. Let it run for about 15-20 minutes, and raise the dial as needed to bring it up to the desired temp. Take your time. Once you know where the dial needs to be set to get a desired temperature ( 400°F is a good temper point) make a not of the reading and use that in the future. Always check the temperature of a toaster oven every ten minutes or so, as it can drift a lot. Use the alarm feature of the thermometer to let you know if it goes more than 10 degrees above the target.

There are plans in the stickies to convert a toaster oven to POD control, but that is probably down the road a bit for you right now.


Be safe, be polite to your folks, keep everything neat and clean, take your time when working on a project, and talk to them about your knifemaking hobby. Once they realize you are not just being a foolish kid, they may well try to aid you in your efforts. If they understand what you are doing, they will be more likely to allow you some leeway in the kitchen.
Keeping your grades up, and your attitude down is uppermost in impressing parents. Keeping things secret or hiding knives from them is NOT the way to get their approval or cooperation.
 
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I can second what Stacy said. When I was MUCH younger I attempted to heat oil in the kitchen in a pot. I wanted to deep fry some potatoes. Having no kitchen thermometer I had no idea how hot the oil was. It flamed up, and I quickly took it outside so as not to burn the house down. As I tried to dump the oil, some plashed back on me and gave me a nasty 2nd degree burn on my hand. Left a scar that lasted for years. Taught me a valuable lesson and I considered myself lucky not to have burned the place down.

The moral... be careful of the experiments you try. Until you know more, you can be very dangerous.
 
I use an oven I scrounged from Craigslist for free in my shop. I originally got it to do powdercoat and ceracoat treatments as these will wreck your home oven. I made racks to hang parts from and use a good thermocouple to check the temp. (The settings on most kitchen ovens are off by a bit).

Toaster ovens are ok but small. Wiring up for 220 and a retrieving a free oven were worth the trouble. Plus I make 'shop ramen' on the stove eye sometimes if I need a snack... :)
 
I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere before, but you can wrap up an oil quenched blade in tinfoil to keep the smell down. Make a little envelope around the blade, fold all the edges over nice and tight. I did a second envelope over top of that on my last blade. Quenched in motor oil, wiped thoroughly and sprayed down with carb cleaner, then the double pocket of foil and you couldn't smell a thing in the kitchen. Sure did when I opened the pockets though, motor oil is smelly stuff.
 
My recommendation would be to check the local thrift shops for a toaster oven or two. Worst case scenario, you can head over to walmart and find a decent enough one in the $30 to $40 dollar range. I prefer to use ovens with 2 heating elements on top and 2 on bottom.

Position the blade as close to the middle of the oven as you can, and put a seperate oven thermometer next to it to more accurately monitor temps.

Some guys also add a mass of steel or some other thermally conductive material in the bottoms of their ovens to help "regulate" the heat.
 
meatybeats said:
I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere before, but you can wrap up an oil quenched blade in tinfoil to keep the smell down. Make a little envelope around the blade, fold all the edges over nice and tight. I did a second envelope over top of that on my last blade. Quenched in motor oil, wiped thoroughly and sprayed down with carb cleaner, then the double pocket of foil and you couldn't smell a thing in the kitchen. Sure did when I opened the pockets though, motor oil is smelly stuff.
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I sure wouldn't put anything cleaned with carb cleaner in the kitchen oven.


Use clean quench or veg oil, not used motor oil

Wipe it down, wash it with dishsoap and water.

Put it in the oven clean.
 
ate1675 said:
I have been tempering in my moms kitchen oven after quenching in canola oil,it works great except for her being annoyed that I even exist at all. I have other ideas of being able to hold temperature at 375 +,I have hot plates,and a deep fryer, can I leave blades ,one at a time, in oil or water or brine for "three two hour cycles" the same as I do in the oven inside a metal bread pan of sand that is equalized at my desired temp,that works well for me?Or does it need to be "air" that does the job?
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Make your mother dinner. Also, be sure to clean the kitchen afterwards. Then, ask her if you can pretty please use her oven to temper your knives.

She has the right to be "annoyed" with you if you are just using her kitchen without giving back. Also, I don't know what kind of knives you're making... but drop all of your current projects, and make her a kitchen knife. Put your whole heart into it. If you aren't confident enough for a chef knife or something large, make a cheese knife.

One thing you should realize is... not everyone looks at knives with the same appreciation you or I may. Some people think "weapon" first when they think knives... so they're afraid of them. It takes a bit more work to get them warmed up to look at knifemaking like they would any other art or craft. That starts with introducing them to it with something they're familiar with. Not everyone is familiar with hunting knives and fighters, but most people are familiar with kitchen knives.

My mother was one of those people that took some warming up to the hobby. She hated it when I started making knives. I'm pretty sure she thought that other people would think I was some sort of psychopath who built weapons in his garage, and judge her for it. Once I made her a knife that she could use, she started to show a bit more interest in the hobby. Not only that, but she had something to show off to her friends (another reason cheese knives are great for this). Once her friends thought it was neat (and wanted knives of their own), she now loves it.

In short, if you're going to be knifemaking (or any other hobby) in your parents house, you're going to have to play by their rules and do what you can to give back. Try and talk to them about it, get them interested in the hobby as well, and they'll be a lot less "annoyed" when you commandeer portions of their house to make things.
 
All these good suggestions should be taken to heart.
BTW, if the deep fat fryer you have is Mom's and she cooks in it, DO NOT use it to temper blades in. That will not go over well at all.
Also, no one commented on it, but a hot plate has almost no use in knifemaking...especially for tempering. Please don't use it for heating oil if that was an idea.....super bad idea!

Just an additional suggestion - Filling out the info in your profile would help you a lot. Your hobbies may well get someone with similar interest to contact you. Knowing if you are 13 or 19 helps a lot, too.

An example of why the above is good -
The suggestion to buy a used oven and wire the shop for 220VAC would not be made if the poster knew that you were a younger student and probably living at home. The suggestions might be more on the line of where you could score a cheap toaster oven, and someone local might even offer one to you.
 
Excellent advice today. Especially like the wise words from weebus. That goes for wives too btw. My wife never saw my love of knives the way I do, she was more or less indifferent. After having Ian make a stunning Santoku she is definitely more interested. She'll be the first one to get a kitchen knife when I get there.

Kitchen knives, when done well, are a boon to our interest. I've never met someone that didn't really appreciate something useful, beautiful and made by someone they love.
 
I totally agree on kitchen knives being the bridge to knife appreciation for non-knife folks.

I can make a $400 hunter and someone might say, "But what is it good for?" or " I would never use that." I can make a nice santoku For $200 and someone will say, "Wow, that is the nicest knife I ever saw!" They may then ask if I make hunters, because they have a cousin who hunts. I sell 100 kitchen and fishing knives for every hunter or art knife.
 
+1 ^^^^

I am new to this, but every so often I throw a new kitchen knife into the cutlery drawer, and my wife is Very happy. She tolerates me too well. Almost all of the knives I have sold are kitchen knives, with a handful of edc or hunter/ skinner knives.
 
Makes sense. "Civilized" knives are of use to 100% of the population. "Militarized" knives and other "working" knives are almost exclusively of interest to men (usually outdoorsy men), which GREATLY narrows the base of potential customers.

We just need to stop being such "guys" and start making knives for the masses. :o
 
tryppyr said:
Makes sense. "Civilized" knives are of use to 100% of the population. "Militarized" knives and other "working" knives are almost exclusively of interest to men (usually outdoorsy men), which GREATLY narrows the base of potential customers.

We just need to stop being such "guys" and start making knives for the masses. :o
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Which is the difference between making knives and selling knives. An entrepreneur makes what will sell, regardless if he likes it. Be that knives or pantyhose or brooms. Make what sells if you want to sell, but make what you like enough so you stay sane.

Also, keep your mom happy should be number one. Honor your mother and your father. Just a thought.
 
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