Tempering old nicholson files

M

marc4fishing

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May 23, 2011
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So at the flea market the other day I bought at least 70 pounds of old vintage nicholson files....I figure what the hell....I read in a back issue that Michael morris tempers them and the grinds them down. Any idea the time temperature to get it down to a 56 57 ?...thanks in advance....I figured for 10 bucks they are good practice
 
I'd really not advise doing that. Grinding hardened blades (especially if you're only starting out) is NOT going to be a lot of fun.

If you DO want to use them. I'd advise resetting the steel/annealing them Then shaping them and then rehardening them. But I'll tell you right now...you're not going to enjoy working with hardened files...even if they've been tempered down.
 
I've made 5 knives out of old files, and it is about the extent of my knife making to this point. I have limited tools right now but have had very good success. Since I do not have a real forge at the moment or a kiln, my process starts with a good wood fire in the back yard. I let it get really good and hot with a good bed f coals. Put the files in the coals and throw some more wood on the fire, and come back in the morning and retrieve them. They are fully annealed, really good and soft, but a little warped. I straighten them up, cut them, grind them, drill them and if I'm doing file work get that done as well. I cut and shape the handles sand everything down to 400 grit. I heat them up till they are just above non magnetic for about a min and quench in oil. Then I temper at 450 for 1.5 hrs let cool to room temp and temper at 450 for 1.5 hrs again. I can't tell you the RC, but the 3 people that own 3 of the 5 of them absolutely love them, they hold an edge very well, are easy to sharpen and take a very good edge. My friend that owns the very first knife I ever made, just harvested his corn field about a month or so ago, and said he cut both ends off of over 350 ears of corn and the next day cleaned about 30-40 fish and it was still very sharp. I've got every farmer in my area wanting one, it's going to be a busy winter...:thumbup:
 
Unless you have access to a hardness tester, you will never know for sure. You also have no way of knowing if there are preexisting stress fractures in your files. I'm not saying that you can't make good knives from files... I have made many that I still use. But because of all the unknown variables involved, I can't in good conscience, sell them to my customers. That is just my opinion.
 
With no disrespect to the skilled craftsmen who have already given you the caveats...
I've done about a dozen file knives ground hard. Temper at 500, use a good sharp belt, and keep it cool as you grind. Use a torch to spot anneal the areas for the pin holes. I've also done a couple dozen by annealing and re-hardening. In my shop, I run 1200 for an hour to anneal, then quench from 1500. I was mostly using mineral oil back then, and occasionally would have one that needed faster oil.

While I've moved on from file knives, if I were to make one today, I'd temper at 500 and grind it hard with a 3M 967, and I'd not hesitate to pass it on to a customer with full disclosure regarding the process.
 
I agree with you Jason and would have no qualms about using a file knife myself. But I have had a few experiences that lead to my current position on selling them to customers. I won't include any forged blades, as there is always a chance of cracks forming during the forging process... these are purely stock removal cases. After fully annealing, I dropped a blade I was grinding and it broke in two. The break clearly showed oxidized areas where a crack was. I have also had two other blades with fractures that didn't show up until an acid etch. I am fairly confident that they were preexisting. That said, I continue to make draw knives and other non-essentials out of files and truck springs. As you say, full disclosure is the way to go. Call me skittish, but those few isolated incidents have led me to shy away from unknown/reclaimed steel for any tool that I feel someone would depend on in a high stress situation.

I still use files for teaching folks how to forge knives and let me tell you... many of those are top notch performers.
 
I don't recall the maker, but there used to be a decent youtube video showing the process. IIRC, it was very similar to Jasons advice: Temper around 500F, grind as desired, and I believe the maker used carbide bits for pin holes.

IIRC, he had a home built grinder with something like a 14" MDF contact wheel. Wish I could remember who it was....
 
knife to a gunfight said:
I don't recall the maker, but there used to be a decent youtube video showing the process. IIRC, it was very similar to Jasons advice: Temper around 500F, grind as desired, and I believe the maker used carbide bits for pin holes.

IIRC, he had a home built grinder with something like a 14" MDF contact wheel. Wish I could remember who it was....
Click to expand...

The video I found based on the OP's remarks was similar but I saw too many blue scorch marks to believe the hardness wasn't ruined.
 
FWIW all of the file knives I've made were given as gifts to friends for the same reasons Rick mentioned as well as they have been far from perfect. I wouldn't feel comfortable charging for them. The ones I'll be making this winter for the other people in interest will be made from Aldo's 1084 if any is still available when I'm ready to purchase, and I see his site is down currently.
 
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