Tempering Sword Problem...

galadduin

galadduin

Joined
Dec 25, 2004
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My book orders from amazon are arrived. I plan to give a try on "complete bladesmithing"'s Sword Making chapter step-by-step..

But there is a problem in my mind. Obviously the sword wont fit to my kitchen oven. So, is there a way to temper the sword at a even heat (lets say 400 F) for at least 1 hour.

Mr. Hrisoulas tells "when the temper color reached then quench it, repeat it 2 more times". Is this method OK for 1050 or 1080 swords? He doesnt mention to keep the temp stable for a period; just when heated to desired temp then quench: This doesnt sound right to me...
 
In Wally Hayes "Modern Katana" video, he actually does manage to use the kitchen oven to temper a katana. He put it in diagonally with the handle sticking out the slightly open door, and then set pans, etc, along the open crack to keep the heat in as much as possible.
 
Tempering by color will work, its just difficult to do as even a job as an oven. You get the same results. Tempering is a function of time and temperature. When you quench the steel you trap carbon atoms in the matrix and form martensite. When you temper, you are causing the carbon to diffuse out, at a controlled rate. Diffuse too much carbon and you go clear back to ferrite.
If you look at a phase diagram you'll see that you could get similar results heating to 1000 deg F for say half a second and quenching, as if you heated to 400 deg for an hour (these are random numbers). The hotter you get it the faster the carbon moves. Its much easier to regulate at the lower temperatures and longer time frames.
An oven is better because you get even heat, but if you can watch the color and are really careful you can still do a good job with it.
 
fitzo said:
In Wally Hayes "Modern Katana" video, he actually does manage to use the kitchen oven to temper a katana. He put it in diagonally with the handle sticking out the slightly open door, and then set pans, etc, along the open crack to keep the heat in as much as possible.
Click to expand...


The piece i prepared is actually a truck spring. I think it is 5160 but not so sure. It is really too easy to HT (compared to my D2 steel stock). When it is forged it wont fit to oven i am sure as it will be at least 110 cm (above 40"). I intend to copy the form of an antique sword that my neighbour have, made in this region in late 19th century (a "yatagan").

Thanks Matt & Fitzo. I will try to temper it as suggested (High temp short time & watching color).

Also, i will try to make a tube long enough and fill with sand pre heated in oven to a slightly higher then desired temp. And then burry the sword in the hot sand. (I can heat the tube seldomly with a torch to prevent the heat loss). Do you think it will work?
 
I don't know about the sand. It will be hard to see the color the steel is reachign if its buried in sand. Also, sand is an insulator, so heating with a torch is going to be hard to get the heat back to the blade. You'd have to heat the outside very hot to get the inside up to temperature I think.

If your sword is straight, you can heat another peice of steel about the same size in your forge and then lay the sword ontop of it (have it polished a little bit so you can see the oxidation form and see the color change). Quench when its the right color.
You could also use a torch, heating from the spine very carefully. Don't put the flame directly on the steel. Just swirl it around and try to heat as evenly as possible.
 
Thanks again Matt. I was only brainstorming, I didnt thought about the insulation property of the sand.
 
the restaurant business?? In Turkey, do you have something sort of like a "Tandouri"?? A long clay potburried up horizontially in a bed of coals with more heaped on top would make a decent tempering oven. Could be done outside useing just some firewood....

regards, mitch
 
Hey Mitch, you are great.... :cool: :)

Yes there is a "Tandouri" here but how stupid I am that i didnt thought using it to temper. I simply solves my problem. Thanks again.... :cool:
 
would it help if he put the sword in a piece of pipe a little larger than the sword then put that into the oven thing to help even out the temp?
 
My tempering oven is a cook stove that is dedicated to tempering. When I had to temper some 32" swords I cut a hole in the door so I could put the blade in at a angle across the oven with the door shut, I tried the open door trick but it didn't work. After about a hr. I turned the blade around so the other end would heat, Did this several times and this seemed to do the job. Gib
 
I did the Wally Hayes trick with the kitchen oven when I tempered my Katana...

However the oven door would not shut enough, so I took foil and enclosed the whole sword and open end of oven in a tent of foil,.I was able to build with different sheets of foil connecting them into long wider sheets to fill in the door gap,,,,,it worked fine..
 
So, how is the forge working??? got any pictures you can post. You are after all our most far-flung bladesmith :)


regards, mitch
 
Mitch, I am the happiest newbee in the world. The forge is working better than my expectations. For years I have been playing in the dirt (no offence to Coal geeks). No more odor, no more charcoal dust, no more sparks in the face, no more waiting to build and maintain the fire .... and so on... :)

My time spent on forging "chamber" of my shop is considerably increased. It is expected to be reduced but now the forging is real fun so I spend my time by the forge. I can easily reach to dull red to orange in 8 to 10 seconds for a 8 inch blade (it was 40 to 70 seconds in my coal forge), thus improving the forging experience. I was also able to aus-forge a D2 blade and was not so hard with the gas power.

ps. I will post some pictures of the forge and my home made belt sander, but before i have to take a picture leaving the forge unattended.... :D

Best wishes, Emre...
 
For tempering, you might want to try my old time favorite....Stovepipe. Put it over a hotplate with a cap. Suspend the blade in the pipe, tip up. Stick a thermometer in a hole in the pipe and temper away.
 
P.Nap,
I can give it a try. Thanks for the idea sir. But i am curious that will the heat be even?
 
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