Thanks and some questions

B

BladeboBaggins

Joined
Oct 25, 2011
Messages
34
I wanted to start this by saying thanks to everyone here for sharing your knowledge, thoughts, ideas and photos of your projects. I started this hobby over the summer on a conversation with my son that I could make a better knife than the Bear Grylls knife. I have learned so much in the past few months, mainly I have learned how much I don't know. But, I have turned out a few knives that I am actually proud of and my sons and I beat them up pretty good on our hiking trips. Making knives is fun, it is great mental therapy for me and it is also frustrating. However, one benefit that I did not foresee was that my sons spend alot of time with me in the "knife shop", priceless.

My questions -

Is there a way to test rockwell hardness on the cheap without sending it out? I am using 1084 and I like doing everything at home. I know I am not getting everything out fo the steel, but that's not the point for me. I broke a knife last week(on purpose) and it appears that I am doing a good job during HT but the brass rod test is my only test so far.

Is powder coating an acceptable finish? I have tried home brew parkerizing with mixed results, ultimately these knives will be outdoors ALOT. I live in western Washington, they will get wet, so I want to give them an extremely robust finish to keep corrosion at bay. I am more of a fan of the "Tactical" knife than the pretty knife. I also believe that knives should have scars or they are not trustworthy. Kinda like people.

I am gonna try sandblasting, what grit for a rough finish without damage? I have walnut shells already and some 80 grit, but I just want to give it a satin texture without opening it up too much. I am willing to experiment, but don't want to start from scratch.

How long until I won't be too embarassed to post a picture of one my knives on here?:)

Thanks for any assistance, and Happy New Year.

Bill
 
Sorry, one question:

I have tried single bevels, hollow grind, convex and V. I suck at all but seem to produce the best results with single bevels. SHould I just stick to that or do you guys practice all types of grinds to keep your skills up? Should I stick to a particular knife style or bounce around to become more rounded?
 
A quick reply on finish. Any rough sandblSting will create more surface area to trap moisture and cause rust. One great finish for carbon steel is a Forced patina. I'm a plumber in Oregon and have zero concerns about my steel tools rusting after they get a patina. I like a scotchbrite finish as if you develop surface rust a quick swipe with a scotchbrite pad is all that's needed to clean it up.
My 1080 hunter I made for hunting this year saw 9 days of coastal Oregon rain and only experienced a deepening of the patina. Zero oil was used on the blade.
IMHO rust on user knives is over hyped. :-) to me it's more of a concern with collectors knives.
 
Brian - Thanks for the response, you're probably right on the rust with a user. I have access to an ultrasonic gun cleaner and luber. Would a 15 minute dunk in the lubing tank "force" lube into the sandblasted area, and the pores of the metal? Or is that all hype?

I tried forcing a patina one one knife and it looked terrible. This was a mustard/mayo/ketchup deal. I like some of the forced patinas that I have seen, specifically Jericoh Bladeworks stuff. Really nice looking, I just don't know how to do it that well. I dont want beauty queens, but neither do I want butt ugly.
 
BladeboBaggins said:

My questions -

Is there a way to test rockwell hardness on the cheap without sending it out? I am using 1084 and I like doing everything at home. I know I am not getting everything out fo the steel, but that's not the point for me. I broke a knife last week(on purpose) and it appears that I am doing a good job during HT but the brass rod test is my only test so far. You can purchase a file set that can give you a rough idea of the hardness by scratching your HTed steel. They usually come in a set and each is a different hardness. Scratches you're softer, doesn't scratch you're harder.

Is powder coating an acceptable finish? I have tried home brew parkerizing with mixed results, ultimately these knives will be outdoors ALOT. I live in western Washington, they will get wet, so I want to give them an extremely robust finish to keep corrosion at bay. I am more of a fan of the "Tactical" knife than the pretty knife. I also believe that knives should have scars or they are not trustworthy. Kinda like people.Personal preference

I am gonna try sandblasting, what grit for a rough finish without damage? I have walnut shells already and some 80 grit, but I just want to give it a satin texture without opening it up too much. I am willing to experiment, but don't want to start from scratch. Most guys I know bead blast, not sandblast. In my experience bead blasting does not rust as readily as sandblasting (you can watch sandblasted steel rust).

How long until I won't be too embarassed to post a picture of one my knives on here?:) Depends on what level of embarrassment you can handle?
Click to expand...


Hope this helps.
 
First and foremost, it's great that your interest in making knives means sharing time with your kids :thumbup:. Second, it sounds like you've chosen good steel and techniques/design approaches for your applications. You're ahead of the game right there.

BladeboBaggins said:
Is there a way to test rockwell hardness on the cheap without sending it out?
Click to expand...
Not really.You can spend $100 or so on a set of testing files. Each one is hardened to a specific Rc hardness, so in theory if a 60Rc file scratches your blade and a 59Rc file doesn't, your blade is probably more or less, somewhere kinda-sorta around 59Rc. In practice I'm told there's a lot of variance; if you bear down with the test file you will make a scratch that makes you think the knife is softer than it is; if you don't put enough pressure on the file you will think it's harder than it really is. I have almost all my blades HT'ed by a pro shop, and they hit the Rc numbers I specify consistantly... but Rc is only part of the story. There are a lot of other factors involved in getting a blade that performs the way you want.

You say you purposely broke a blade and feel it showed you the HT is pretty good... I presume you looked at the visible grain on the broken ends. If they look smooth and fine, that is indeed a good sign that you're not overheating the steel when you austenitize it.

There are tempering charts online that will give you pretty good guidelines as far as the temperature you want for a given final hardness, when dealing with simple carbon steels like 1084. Double check the actual temps of whatever you're using to temper in, and that should get you pretty close.

The brass rod/edge flex test can be helpful, but it can also be misleading. A thick heavy edge will resist deformation regardless of hardness, so the brass rod won't tell you much. Likewise, a really thin edge will flex easily regardless of hardness, and is unlikely to chip out unless it's way too hard. Geometry has a lot more impact on flexibility than hardness does.

More important than a brass rod test or Rockwell number, do your blades support the edge you like to put on them, or do they roll over easily? If so, lower your tempering temp, the steel is too soft. Do they chip easily? Raise your temp, the steel is too hard. If you're pleased with how your knives hold up the way you actually use them, then your HT is good :)
BladeboBaggins said:
Is powder coating an acceptable finish?
Click to expand...
That's entirely up to you. If you like the way it looks and reduces maintenance, then the answer is YES. One thing to remember is that PC won't do anything to protect the actual edge, it's still bare steel. I prefer a fine hand-rubbed finish on any steel, carbon or stainless, patinaed or not. The deeper/coarser the scratches, the easier for corrosion to start. Regardless, the main thing is to simply wipe your knives clean after use.
 
Great info on the RC files, didn't know those existed.

On powder coating, I guess I was just making sure that there were no pitfalls that I was unaware of. I understand the edge will be bare and susceptible to corrosion.

The grains were smooth on the blade I broke. I did that based on a post here and the picture of good heat treating looked similar to what I had. I can see where the pursuit of perfection is easy to get lost in with this endeavor. I am having fun and don't expect to retire to become a full time knife maker, but I would like decent quality.

Thanks for the help and input.
 
What are you using for grinding the blades? Getting good grinds is mostly practice, with technique but might be harder with a grinder that's not set up well.
I'd stick with one grind for awhile, say a flat grind. Where in western Washington? I'm gonna try to talk Chuck Richards into a small hammer-in in Salem sometime soon. I'm in Beaverton. Western Washington is a hotbed of great knifemakers.
 
I have a hand full of files, a 1X30 and a 4X36 that I have been making work. It is a struggle, but it's working. I'm cutting the blanks with bandsaw, s-l-o-w going, but again it's working.

I am/was hesitant to sink money into new equipment since I just started this about 6 months ago. I have looked at alot of plans for home built grinders but will probably get a 2X42 instead of making my own.

I would love to attend some sort of knife making class/tutorial, but I am not willing to travel any distance yet. I live near Tacoma if there is anything close.

Bill
 
BladeboBaggins said:
I have a hand full of files, a 1X30 and a 4X36 that I have been making work. It is a struggle, but it's working. I'm cutting the blanks with bandsaw, s-l-o-w going, but again it's working.

I am/was hesitant to sink money into new equipment since I just started this about 6 months ago. I have looked at alot of plans for home built grinders but will probably get a 2X42 instead of making my own.

I would love to attend some sort of knife making class/tutorial, but I am not willing to travel any distance yet. I live near Tacoma if there is anything close.

Bill
Click to expand...

Dave Lisch has classes regularly at http://davidlisch.com/classes.html It would be a great place for yyou to try a couple different grinders out. And get some real hands on training. Even with zero forging experience.
 
post pics now there are a lot of people that can help you fix up your work or make it better just with little tweeks. lets see them :)
 
Dave Lisch makes some sweet knives, a little expensive right after Christmas though.

I'll get some pictures up this weekend.
 
To patina a knife:
Once the blade is finished with all sanding, but the handle is not installed -
Clean the blade with acetone, then wash well with dish soap and hot water - Scrub hard.
Soak in ferric chloride (FC) for five minutes. The FC should be a 1:3 mix of stock strength ferric chloride and water.
Remove blade, rinse with hot water, rub down with 0000 steel wool, wash with dish soap,rinse well, and put back in the tank of FC.
Repeat this as many times as needed to get a deep patina. It should take about four cycles to get a nice and even deep blue/black.
When done, wash the blade well and dry. Hang in the air in a warm room for a few hours and then give it a wipe off with a soft cloth, then oil the blade .

A tip on avoiding scratches in the patina when putting on the handle ,and other tasks, is to tape the blade up with blue painter's tape. When the knife is finished and ready to sharpen, tape the blade all but the edge area. This will allow the edge to be sharpened, but protect the bevels from accidental rubbing on the stones.
 
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