That failed spine whack feeling...

Daniel L

Daniel L

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Joined
Nov 2, 1998
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I've only recently started to trust liner locks again - and tonight I just happened to have a small 2x4 block with me and one of my newer liner locks.

It's a quality, brand name knife (I will be sending it back to them and I know they'll resolve it - its just pot luck that some liner locks will fail) and just a light TAP on the spine caused the lock bar to "fall off" the tang.

My jaw dropped - the first time ever I've managed to get a successful spine whack failure. That kind of sinking feeling, that loss of confidence and trust I used to have with that knife. (Its definitely secure when normally locked up and can't make it fail with back pressure on the spine.)

I held the knife in reverse grip and just lightly tapped the spine to simulate how the knife might have some inadvertent contact with a hard surface - yep, failed just as easily.

I'm not a proponent of vicious hard spine whacking, but certainly any knife should pass a spine tap. In this case, just an issue of QC where the angle isn't quite right on the tang - a problem inherent to the mass manufacturing intricacies of liner locks.

SO... now that I've over the initial shock it's made me think twice about putting liner locks on the list again. Damn shame, there are so many great designs out there it would be hard to stick to lockbacks and Axis only!! (locks I do trust...)
 
Good thing you tested the knife...I guess this shows that you should test each knife you buy, so you can feel confident in it.
 
It is a good thing you tested the lock. I'd return the knife - but I wouldn't let one bad knife sour you on liner-locks.

I guess I'm one of the few that actually admit that I like liner-locks.

Two of my favorite-carry folders are the Military and Buck Strider Tarani, both liner-locks. I love the easy one-hand open/close convenience, and both can be popped open with the speed of an auto.

My most-wanted list includes the Srider AR - another liner-lock folder.

I think the 'you'll lose all your fingers' threads about liner-locks are a bit overdone.
 
Actually based on what I've read around here it may be that it needed to have the lock 'set'. There are some that follow the theory that the lock fails initially but then never fails again after that and some experiences to apparently back that theory up. Personally I don't know if I buy into it except in maybe the liner locks with titanium for the lock. In those cases it makes sense to think there could be something to it.

See this thread here. http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=377898, particularly the one by Joe Talmedge covering the spine whack.

STR
 
I have seen the same thing with steel liners, the main issue is often just width of engagement and impact or inertial openings can fix it.

-Cliff
 
I like liner locks, but I really can't see any reason (both strength and ease of use) to make them as opposed to the compression lock. The compression lock should be phased in as the replacement.
 
Some people have reported issues with vertical play with compression locks in extended use and others prefer liners for ease of opening/closing.

-Cliff
 
Daniel, I know exactly how you feel. I did a spine whack test on one of my knives recently and with a light tap the liner lock just failed completely, I repeted the test and it failed every single time.

I wouldn't rule out liner locks completely, if the liner is well made they are safe.
 
Hi Daniel
must be those sleepless nights mate!!! Drop me a mail with more details.
Phil
 
Artfully Martial said:
I like liner locks, but I really can't see any reason (both strength and ease of use) to make them as opposed to the compression lock. The compression lock should be phased in as the replacement.
Click to expand...

only spydies have the compression, so thats prob not an option for everyone else. of course BM has the axis/etc.

nothing wrong w/a well made & fitted liner lock imho, i have had a lot of them and the only ones w/a prob i have had are CRKT, and only 2 of them, which CRKT fixed and they were fine after that.
 
I dislike 90% of the Liner Locks I have handled. I just never gained their trust. I greatly favor Framelocks and Axis locks. PGH~
 
I have only had a couple of liner lock knives fail the spine whack test. Most quality linerlocks are fine. Just today I spine whacked my friend's Sere 2000, and it was ROCK SOLID. Mine is too, and that's after being beat to hell for the past 3 years or so! Still opens with a "ker-thwack" and stays locked up great during use.

Really, a quality made liner lock can be just as trustworthy as any other lock.
 
stand that failed spine whack feeling. It happens everytime I try it on my Queen Copperhead slipjoint.













Nevermind, I was just informed that slipjoint folders are suppose to fail the spine whack test.
 
Daniel,
I would'nt rule out all liner-locks because of the failure of one.
I once had a CRKT Grey Ghost Mirage that would fail a light spine-whack, but my brother-in-law also has a Mirage that we spine-whacked repeatedly and it holds fast every time.

I give the spine-whack to all of my new knives--I've only had two fail and I've owned about one hundred knives over the years, alot of them liner-locks.

Good luck,
Allen.
 
I did spine whack the only other liner lock in my collection - an Emerson CQC8 (production model) - and with a sigh of relief it held fine.

"Setting of the lock" hasn't worked... the liner still pops off the tang with a light tap.

I don't dislike liner locks... I just don't have the same level of trust that I have with them as lock backs and Axis locks. I haven't owned enough framelocks to form an opinion yet...

The single Compression Lock I own (Spyderco Yojimbo) passed with spine whack fine - there's no vertical play in mine provided the fingers allow the lock tab to full engage without touching anything. However, the "detent" in my compression lock is somewhat lacking and I got nipped by the very sharp tip yesterday!

I'll buy a liner lock again... eventually!
 
It sounds like the angle of the grind on the tang is just too great on the knife you have. There is a trick to making them angled just right so the locks hold and don't slip even under pressure or whacks.

Unfortunately many liner locks get out there in the public hands that are not made with the right angle to be safe let alone correct. I've had my share of these also and they usually get caught right away and returned promptly.

Ironically most of the faulty liner locks I've had have been high dollar custom made ones too. I won't mention names because I really don't want anymore trouble on this forum but some of those liner locking knives I have returned for the same issues you speak of were made by knifemakers Guild members and were upwards of $400 to $600 folders. It sucks when it is a production folder for a hundred bucks or less but when it is a high dollar custom you would expect them to know better and do things right but they apparently don't.

One such folder I bought I got so frustrated with the maker after getting it back from him twice supposedly fixed that I took it apart and copied it piece by piece and made my own version of the same folder (with a lock that worked) and mailed it to the guy and told him to take notes and do them right. He never got back to me.



STR
 
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