That feeling

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kaotikross

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I was wondering if anyone owned a sword that has been historically proven to have actually ended a life, such as a papered Japanese "body sword', or an executioners sword from medieval days, or perhaps a civil war sword with a journal stating it had been used in this manner. A headhunters sword, etc. I think you get the idea. If so, tell us about it, please, and when you hold it, does it have a "feeling" to it? Do you think that if so, it's just the mind playing tricks, or it's just an inanimate object, incapable of retaining that kind of aura, for lack of a better word? Would you classify the feeling of more of an awe of the history of the blade, or just an eerieness in general, or perhaps something entirely different? If so, please explain. Will your wife/GF/sig. other stay in the same dark room with it, or touch it? Is he/she grossed/freaked out by it? I'm actually collecting input for a college paper, to be perfectly honest with you all. Any answers by owners of such a weapon, even second-hand knowledge/rumor, or just theory, any input from anyone, actually, opinions, etc. -would be appreciated. Thanks.
 
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I have owned many Japanese body test blades over the years. At one time that was all I collected, but then my focused changed and I sold most of them.

You may have read or heard of too many romanticized accounts of swords retaining some mystical properties, an aura or whatever. They are just swords and all of them were made for killing. I haver never felt anything any different in them than any other sword. People who recount those types of experiences obviously have vivid imaginations. If my wife or girlfriend told me she couldn't stay in the same room or house with something like that I would on have one word for her, "bye".

Swords with inscribed "Body Tests" or Tameshigiri tests were for the most part used to test the swords cutting ability, not just for killing. In fact, while they were used on convicted criminals scheduled for execution, most were tested on cadavers. There were many different cuts (see chart attached) and sometimes multiple bodies would be stacked up and cuts performed to see how many they would cut through. Dead bodies move a whole lot less when you are trying to cut them :-)

At least with Japanese swords, with so many used in battle, the numbers of them used for killing far out number the "Body test" blades. Some retain nicks and gouges from sword strikes in battle known as "Kirikomi" and are fairly common. Though they are not proof of killing.

With body test blades there were two families of government sponsored testers, the Yamada and Yamano families. Each family of testers carried on their work through several generations. They kept detailed records of swords sharpness and sword smiths who produced the best cutting swords. They were rated as follows: Saijo O-wazamono - (best cutting swords), O-wazamono - (excellent cutting swords), Ryo-wazamono - (very good cutting swords), Wazamono - (good cutting swords).

Other types of tests were performed as well, such as Kabuto or helmet tests. This is were they would cut into a wart helmet or kabuto to see if the blade would withstand such a blow.

Tameshigiri is still performed today only on Tatami mats and such, no cadavers (note my avatar).

Here is a link to a set of books on the subject with some drawings you may like. http://yakiba.com/Book_BodyTests.htm

Here are links to a couple of swords, one a helmet test, one a body test, and one a super rare blade named "Head splitter" and as the name would indicate it split a human head.

http://yakiba.com/katana_munetsugu.htm

http://yakiba.com/kat_kaneshige.htm

http://yakiba.com/kat_atama_pg2.htm

tameshigiri_tests2 largecopy.jpg
 

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This was exactly what I was looking for, Southern Comfort. Thank you VERY much. :) Does anyone else have any other opinions, or stories? Personally, I think a sword wouldn't retain anything , any more than a gun would, or perhaps better yet, a bayonet used in battle. I agree, there's definitely romanticized portrayals of such things, and the Japanese themselves were guilty of this as well (or so I've heard). So, if any sword- or weapon- is really "just a piece of metal" (or wood, or whatever), then that begs another question- for example Excalibur, etc.. how do certain swords (or weapons) come by these almost mystical and legendary properties? The spear that stabbed Christ would be another such item. Would the deeds or ability of an adept user be attributed to a weapon? I can see how a warrior wouldn't exactly dissuade such rumors- because to see him or her in battle WITH the "weapon of legend" would be quite disheartening to an opponent if the legend was widespread. These types of scenes are pervasive in cinema, and literature, and have likely been passed by word of mouth for far longer than we can guess, and enjoy widespread popularity. Certainly there must be some historical basis of some kind ? Did a warrior just "make it up" to increase his or her own status? :D
 
I have a Tsing Tao colonial sword that came to me bathed in blood. The blood may have easily come from the person that had grossly sharpened it to razor sharp but the piece seems to have an aura about it to me. A couple of other period swords I have seem to speak a bit as well. One item specifically is a spear/lance head from the Philippiines that had been hafted as a dagger with some gold work. The bone is carved with a dragon.

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Cheers

GC
 
I have to admit, I admire many of the design aspects of the LOTR swords. They're attractive, no denying that. Most are, (at least in part) based upon combat proven designs, so if they were manufactured as functional weapons, they'd likely draw quite a bit of appeal. Sadly, most of the LOTR steel I've found are almost all wallhanger quality. I'm fairly certain Atlanta may have manufactered a "battle ready" "Sting", although I'm not positive.
 
I get a weird feeling everytime I pick up a Nazi weapon. Is it the weapon, or me? Don't know, but I avoid Nazi stuff. It has an evil feel to it. More than likely my imagination, but...can weapons transmit a feeling? Yes, and especially if you know the history. Your imagination, upbringing and belief's will leap to fill the void.
 
David Stifle said:
I get a weird feeling everytime I pick up a Nazi weapon. Is it the weapon, or me? Don't know, but I avoid Nazi stuff. It has an evil feel to it. More than likely my imagination, but...can weapons transmit a feeling? Yes, and especially if you know the history. Your imagination, upbringing and belief's will leap to fill the void.
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Agreed! Whatever the source and reason, the feelings are truly present and caused by the weapon or object.

The wielder animates the sword, but it goes both ways, and the sword's character incites the person using it. I think the legendary named swords and weapons of history and myth earned their reputation.
 
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Here is an extreme example of a weaponly object that can raise strong feelings in almost anyone, even without any knowledge of it's history:

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WW1 German sniper's mask.
 
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To each his own, but I don't accept that an inanimate piece of steel can harbor evil or spirits or bad karma if you will. It seems more plausible that due to the known history of a people, especially one attributed to extreme aggression and violence, such as the Nazi's or even the Japanese, that one's mind would invoke a certain amount of horror or abhorrence when viewing or handling items from these cultures, specific pieces or battles, etc..

Most of the stories you read of these magical feats performed by incredible men wielding seemingly supernatural weapons come from a time when people were highly superstitious. The mind is a very powerful thing and I do believe that while in battle the power of the mind or Ki if you will can provide something extra and enable men to do incredible things. However, when you combine fear, superstition, great feats and lots of time, these feats which were probably significant in their own right, grow into something mystical, magical.

The Japanese were incredibly superstitious and there are many, many folklore stories of famous warriors wielding magical swords killing all kinds of mythical creatures. They believed in sorcery and that there were those capable of changing into foxes and whatnot. I don't believe that either.

Same type of stories abound throughout Europe.

Right here in the USA during the Salem Witch Hunts, how many innocent people suffered horrific deaths after being accused of witchcraft. Do you believe they were really witches ? I don't.

Having owned many pieces of German and Nazi memorabilia, even with the knowledge that it was part of a very evil regime, I can honestly say I never felt any evil feelings emanating from them. In fact, they brought me some good luck. I was once co-owner of a military surplus store and one day we went to an estate sale of an old WWII Col. who had passed away. There we bought a pair of General Rommel's riding boots and a 3 x 5 autographed photo of Hitler. We put them in a little display case in the store, it was a military surplus store after all. A few weeks later an article appeared in the local newspaper regarding the items and that we must be Nazi's. At first it pissed me off severely, calling me a Nazi. I promptly had them do a retraction, but then people started coming in bringing boxes of Nazi memorabilia. They would literally come in set a box on the counter and say something like, "Dad or Granddad brought this stuff home from the war, and I don't want this Nazi crap in my house", and walk out. We had flags, coffin banners, medals, daggers, uniforms, mauser rifles, even one Luger pistol. The only aura they emitted was one of money.

The only feeling I have from the sniper helmet above is that it is a well made piece of armor. I like it, would own it, but it doesn't scare me. If you knew for a fact it sat on a shelf in a warehouse for the entire war, never seeing combat, never being used, would it seem so scary. I think not, I think it is again the power of the mind which brings about these feelings when one attempts to attribute evil or mystical deeds to an inanimate object.

The only feeling I have ever had from a weapon, was when you occasionally pick up a sword/handgun/rifle that just happens to be a perfect fit for you. A perfectly balanced, the perfect length, weight, etc.. gives you a feeling of satisfaction when wielded. Much like wearing a pair of boots that fit perfectly opposed to ones too small or too large.

Again, just my opinion. I respect your right to yours.
 
No need to take sides one way or the other. In most cases, it's when you KNOW a weapon has a certain history that the mind begins it's leap, such as Nazi or Japanese weapons you know were involved in atrocities. Such as the rape of Nanking, or the death camps. It's not the weapon, it's what you know that imparts that certain feeling. Now, while I am agreeing with you, there are more things under heaven and earth than we will ever understand, so I do have an open mind about objects being imbued with certain attributes. (I had a car once I swear hated me:D)
 
It's not the history of the sniper's mask or lingering spirits that make it so striking to me, it's the form and function, the look and feel.

With legendary weapons, I think of them as the sword/handgun/rifle/battleship that is so good that it seems to always beat all others and give a heightened version of that perfect feel, increasing its legendary status and accordingly, the confidence, bravado (and amazing feats) of the user.
 
It's not the history of the sniper's mask or lingering spirits that make it so striking to me, it's the form and function, the look and feel.
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I agree wholeheartedly, it is a great piece. The feeling I get is that I want to own it :-)

it's when you KNOW a weapon has a certain history that the mind begins it's leap, such as Nazi or Japanese weapons you know were involved in atrocities. Such as the rape of Nanking, or the death camps. It's not the weapon, it's what you know that imparts that certain feeling.
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Absolutely. My point all along.

BTW: Hope you got rid of that car ! I have an ex-wife who hates me and it's not just a feeling, she told me so just recently :D
 
SouthernComfort said:
I agree wholeheartedly, it is a great piece. The feeling I get is that I want to own it :-)


Absolutely. My point all along.

BTW: Hope you got rid of that car ! I have an ex-wife who hates me and it's not just a feeling, she told me so just recently :D
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Yes, but I also said...aw, forget it.:cool:
 
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