The 20th century Bowie knife

not2sharp

not2sharp

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Just for the fun of it, let’s talk about Bowie knives during the 20th century. For most collectors the true era for these knives ends with the US Civil War and most post war knives are replicas, Bowie-style hunting knives, a homage, or an other unrelated fighting knife. This is often where the conversation ends. Yet we know that the Bowie knife in the form of the film Iron Mistress (1952), had a huge influence on the rebirth of the custom knife industry, and that production and custom versions of these popular knives remains a major portion of our hobby.

Lets look at these vintage knives and talk about how we identify and classify them into specific periods.

n2s
 
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I feel the term is overused and pretty much a sales gimick.

Don’t get me wrong, I love the story of Jim Bowie, its an epic American tale. But no one really knows what his knife really looked like or what happened to it. He probably had more than one knife.

As a young boy I read everything in my school library about Boone Crocket Bowie, and all the other early American heroes. Of course I wanted a Bowie Knife, when I tried to nail down what exactly a Bowie knife was and separate fact from fiction. I realized it was mostly fiction. So I stopped using the term “Bowie Knife”.

So a modern manufacturer using the term Bowie, is almost stolen valor. Especially when it’s described as a genuine or authentic Bowie, pitiful.

I’d rather discuss them in terms of their blade shapes and intended use.

Just my opinion formed in elementary school almost half a century ago. Take it for what its worth.

If I had to pick a modern Bowie it would be the Buxton Fighter.


view
 
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I agree that "bowie knife" is a very vague term. Originally referring to a "large butcher knife" of mostly unknown shape or size. Probably around 8-12", probably with a sharpened false edge, maybe with a cross guard.

Since then the "Bowie" has become synonymous with a large (again, 8-12"), clip pointed fighting knife, usually with a cross guard. Clip point blades existed well before the bowie & continued to well after.

During the 19th century, many Bowies purchased by Americans, especially during the civil war, were produced in Sheffield England & Solingen in what is now Germany. These where then the biggest producers of blades in the world.

My pick for a 20th century Bowie is the Puma Bowie. The originals had very high quality blades supposedly made of a Böhler NWN80 & were hard chrome plated. Those chrome coatings hold up fantastically even to this day, its almost a shame modern manufacturers seem to no longer do this. Puma still makes most of their classic knives by hand in Solingen to this day, almost unchanged. Apart from the blade steel, which is now a forged 440C instead.

Certainly a famous mid to late 20th century "Bowie" knife. Pumas where considered top-notch back in the day & the Bowie is one of their most iconic knives.

IMG-0144.jpg
 
not2sharp said:
Just for the fun of it, let’s talk about Bowie knives during the 20th century. For most collectors the true era for these knives ends with the US Civil War and most post war knives are replicas, Bowie-style hunting knives, a homage, or an other unrelated fighting knife. This is often where the conversation ends. Yet we know that the Bowie knife in the form of the film Iron Mistress (1952), had a huge influence on the rebirth of the custom knife industry, and that production and custom versions of these popular knives remains a major portion of our hobby.

Lets look at these vintage knives and talk about how we identify and classify them into specific periods.

n2s
Click to expand...
I favor the "Sheffield" patterns with narrower blades and false edges that go farther towards the guard.

Zieg
 
If you went to K Mart in the 1960's, this bowie was in the Western Knife display

tHREBKd.jpg


and in the Case Display. a Case 1836 Bowie.


9949532868


There was no such thing as the internet. Information on vintage knives came from articles in periodicals and a few books. The books were very general, lots of pictures of a lot of things. Few pictures on any one thing. So, this is what I thought a "Bowie knife" ought to look like.

Only after 2000 did I buy Norm Flayderman's book The Bowie Knife: Unsheathing an American Legend. There were a lot of Bowie knife patterns, so much so, any big knife could be called a "Bowie"

Randall made the M12 and the Smithsonian Bowie, which were similar to the Western and Case above. All big, with heavy brass guards.

Neither the Randall No1 and No 14 were called Bowies, though they are big knives.

gt6uWuU.jpg



this is a big knife from the 1960's

T0q75G6.jpg



but it was not called a Bowie

dnXmRJC.jpg


The WW2 generation humped 100 pounds of gear during the war, found most people were killed by artillery, followed by machine guns, small arms, mines, the occasional airplane attack or bomb, and post war many had definite low opinions about lugging some huge heavy knife on their belt. The ones that fought the Japanese had killed lots of Samurai sword carrying officers and bayonet charging infantry. Americans and Japanese found out, firepower obliterated edged weapon warriors.

In fact, read the book Hardtack and Coffee, written by a Civil War Veteran. In it is a section about the fate of Bowie knifes given to, and carried by Civil War Soldier's. Most of them were tossed on the ground after the first 20 mile march!

In my opinion, a couple of reasons there is a current fascination with big heavy knives, is due to the fact people today do not walk far, and do not carry their gear. You can toss a ton of equipment on an ATV and not have the back straps of your pack hurt your shoulders.
 
My recollection is that in the first 60% to 75% of the 20th Century about half of all fixed blade knives had a clip point echoing the classic signature Bowe profile (I know some 19th century Bowe blades didn't). Then in the mid 1970s, custom knife makers emerged who were making drop point hunting knives. Many "hunting" knives today have either an up-swept profile or a drop point profile. Most non-tactical knives no longer use a clip point in my un-scientific, non-objective opinion (which is only narrowly informed).

"Fighting Knives" is another matter. In military usage there were still clip points on fighting knives. The Ka-Bar comes to mind as does the Randall 1. This profile continued in military usage up through the Viet Nam war, with the introduction of hte Air Force Pilot's Survival Knife. . . . . and through to today until bayonets were been dropped from general issue to troops in some forces.

Some feel that a signature characteristic of the Bowe knife is size. Most knives today just are not that big, even miliary knives are usually 7" or less. Maybe the so-called "Camp Knife" trends into the Bowe size category.

I know that about anyone can find a knife that falls outside of any of my characterizations . . .that is what makes the discussion lively.
 
In their
VorpelSword said:
My recollection is that in the first 60% to 75% of the 20th Century about half of all fixed blade knives had a clip point echoing the classic signature Bowe profile (I know some 19th century Bowe blades didn't). Then in the mid 1970s, custom knife makers emerged who were making drop point hunting knives. Many "hunting" knives today have either an up-swept profile or a drop point profile. Most non-tactical knives no longer use a clip point in my un-scientific, non-objective opinion (which is only narrowly informed).

"Fighting Knives" is another matter. In military usage there were still clip points on fighting knives. The Ka-Bar comes to mind as does the Randall 1.
Click to expand...

Good point. In intended use, the original Black Bowie or Coffin Bowies were stabbing and slashing tools. Any bayonet up to the WWII Fairbairn Sykes will fill that use. With a clip point WWII KA-BAR and Randall knives are modern successors to the original Bowie-pattern knives.
 
While big is better, the smaller Bowie’s are also fun to look at. I have a a few from makers, I have one from Tim Ridge of Swampfox knives, cannot find a pic right now, but here is a pic of a Mike Mann of Idaho Knife Works small Bowie. While I don’t think it fits any period in particular, I do think bowies got smaller as repeating firearms became more reliable.

3FC450E5-0D97-41EF-8E08-14145FCC5B79.jpeg
 
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helobite said:
If you went to K Mart in the 1960's, this bowie was in the Western Knife display

tHREBKd.jpg


and in the Case Display. a Case 1836 Bowie.


9949532868


There was no such thing as the internet. Information on vintage knives came from articles in periodicals and a few books. The books were very general, lots of pictures of a lot of things. Few pictures on any one thing. So, this is what I thought a "Bowie knife" ought to look like.

Only after 2000 did I buy Norm Flayderman's book The Bowie Knife: Unsheathing an American Legend. There were a lot of Bowie knife patterns, so much so, any big knife could be called a "Bowie"

Randall made the M12 and the Smithsonian Bowie, which were similar to the Western and Case above. All big, with heavy brass guards.

Neither the Randall No1 and No 14 were called Bowies, though they are big knives.

gt6uWuU.jpg



this is a big knife from the 1960's

T0q75G6.jpg



but it was not called a Bowie

dnXmRJC.jpg


The WW2 generation humped 100 pounds of gear during the war, found most people were killed by artillery, followed by machine guns, small arms, mines, the occasional airplane attack or bomb, and post war many had definite low opinions about lugging some huge heavy knife on their belt. The ones that fought the Japanese had killed lots of Samurai sword carrying officers and bayonet charging infantry. Americans and Japanese found out, firepower obliterated edged weapon warriors.

In fact, read the book Hardtack and Coffee, written by a Civil War Veteran. In it is a section about the fate of Bowie knifes given to, and carried by Civil War Soldier's. Most of them were tossed on the ground after the first 20 mile march!

In my opinion, a couple of reasons there is a current fascination with big heavy knives, is due to the fact people today do not walk far, and do not carry their gear. You can toss a ton of equipment on an ATV and not have the back straps of your pack hurt your shoulders.
Click to expand...
Outstanding post.

Zieg
 
Olumin said:
I agree that "bowie knife" is a very vague term. Originally referring to a "large butcher knife" of mostly unknown shape or size. Probably around 8-12", probably with a sharpened false edge, maybe with a cross guard.

Since then the "Bowie" has become synonymous with a large (again, 8-12"), clip pointed fighting knife, usually with a cross guard. Clip point blades existed well before the bowie & continued to well after.

During the 19th century, many Bowies purchased by Americans, especially during the civil war, were produced in Sheffield England & Solingen in what is now Germany. These where then the biggest producers of blades in the world.

My pick for a 20th century Bowie is the Puma Bowie. The originals had very high quality blades supposedly made of a Böhler NWN80 & were hard chrome plated. Those chrome coatings hold up fantastically even to this day, its almost a shame modern manufacturers seem to no longer do this. Puma still makes most of their classic knives by hand in Solingen to this day, almost unchanged. Apart from the blade steel, which is now a forged 440C instead.

Certainly a famous mid to late 20th century "Bowie" knife. Pumas where considered top-notch back in the day & the Bowie is one of their most iconic knives.

IMG-0144.jpg
Click to expand...
When I think Puma, I don’t think Bowie. Puma’s iconic large fixed blade is the White Hunter.
 
brownshoe said:
When I think Puma, I don’t think Bowie. Puma’s iconic large fixed blade is the White Hunter.
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Well, I didn't say the most iconic. Id comfortability put the White Hunter, Bowie & Skinner as Pumas three most well known designs. Though my personal favourite is probably the Trail Guide (not the Chinese replica), even if I'll probably never get to own one.
 
Olumin said:
Well, I didn't say the most iconic. Id comfortability put the White Hunter, Bowie & Skinner as Pumas three most well known designs. Though my personal favourite is probably the Trail Guide (not the Chinese replica), even if I'll probably never get to own one.
Click to expand...
I don’t think Bowie and then Puma. There are a host of Solingen-made Bowies whose patterns are more “iconic” than Puma such as the slab-handled bowies made in Germany for Gutman (GC) or Edge brand or Linder. Your Puma has a large rivets, long clip, thick handle, guard and pouch sheath, which are Puma design elements, but don’t really say “iconic” German made bowie knife to me.
 
brownshoe said:
I don’t think Bowie and then Puma. There are a host of Solingen-made Bowies whose patterns are more “iconic” than Puma such as the slab-handled bowies made in Germany for Gutman (GC) or Edge brand or Linder. Your Puma has a large rivets, long clip, thick handle, guard and pouch sheath, which are Puma design elements, but don’t really say “iconic” German made bowie knife to me.
Click to expand...
You dont have to repeat yourself, I got you the first time. You're entitled to your own opinion, like all of us. You haven't posted your pick for a 20th century Bowie...
 
The purpose of this thread: “Lets look at these vintage knives and talk about how we identify and classify them into specific periods.”

I thought we were discussing mid century German-made bowie style knives.
 
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