The "best" makers vs "your best" makers!

Stephen F

Stephen F

Joined
Sep 28, 2003
Messages
1,235
What gets a maker on to a "Best Makers" list? A discussion.

There have been a number threads past and present about who are the best makers. Very often these threads with turn into lists "favourite" makers.

My personal view is that a "best" makers list is possible, and it can be an objective list,based primarily on an examination of a makers skill level, primarily in the the area of consisten and almost flawless fit and finish: symmetry, tolerance of fit, geometric precision and consistency, refinement of finish.

My view is that these factors should be measured irrespective price, value, design, desireability, or scarcity. The only way on to this list is closeness to perfection in FnF.

After that list has been drawn up we enter into the softer, more subjective classifications of "best" - how to rank the makers and whether they make it on to your "best makers" list is subjective : the designs catch your eye, they are rare, highly embellished, simple and elegant, good value, a certain style ..... only you can choose, many may agree with some of your choices (the hot makers), some may not. No list is "more" correct than the other, if the basic reference point (quality) is the same.

This is how I select and rank the makers I collect.

What about you?

Do you agree that FnF is THE common factor in any "Best" listing?

If not, what is?

Stephen
 
I don't get to handle tons of knives so my list is limited by my experience (or lack of).
I think fit&finish is a very important factor, and so is design. Great fit&finish and an appealing design make a great knife. When I say design I don't mean visual balace only, the knife must feel good in hand and fully functional for it's intended purpose.
Not taking the price into account, the very best knives I have (or have handled) so far are by makers listed below. I'll only list one per category, even though for some categories the second place is quite close.

Tom Mayo ("tactical" folder)
Bob Loveless (stock removal FB)
Dietmar Kressler (integral FB)
Jerry Fisk (forged FB)
Ron Lake ("traditional" folder)
 
Stephen F said:
What gets a maker on to a "Best Makers" list? A discussion....

... Do you agree that FnF is THE common factor in any "Best" listing?

If not, what is?

Stephen
Click to expand...

I would add that a maker that is able to continue to hone established F&F skills and yet still take chances such as new designs, introducing technical innovations particularly material use and applicatioin and of course, perfect (esp. for folders) effortless use of the tool.

All pretty hard to measure, since no guage can do this and even perfect symmetry is not require to produce perfect fit.

Someone in my profession opined that we can only measure this sort of "best" in projects by experiencing those that "take your breath away".

So for instance, I think Kit Carson makes one of the very best liner locking folders. Outstanding fit and finish, exceptional ease of use and balance, timeless design and proportions say on the Model 4. However, when I picked up my first Phil Boguszewski Classic Cobra flipper, it "took my breath away".

I can't say that Phil's knife is better than Kit's - some knives make an immediate impact on you and others "grow" on you.

I usually start with blade shape design and grind more than anything since I am picky about this and it drops out a lot of makers to begin with whether they have perfect F&F or not.
 
Hi Stephen,

Purely skill and FnF enters only so far into custom knives.

Tactical Fixed Blade: Walter Brend

Tactical Folder: FNF---John W. Smith

Tactical Manual Folder, DA Folder, Fixed blade maker: RJ Martin. He can do all three, this is a very small club!

Stock Removal Presentation Folder: Michael Walker. Ron Lake loses points for making the same knife for last 20 years...it should be perfect by now.

Stock Removal Presentation Fixed Blade: Doug Casteel. Loveless loses points since he doesn't make his own knives).

Forged Carbon or Damascus Fixed Blade: There is a tie between 4-5 makers.

Damascus Folder: Toss Up John W. Smith or Michale Walker (if you can check out the double zipper pattern Damascus Folding Dagger he sold at the AKI)

Multi-Blade Folder: Tony Bose

WWG
 
Stephen F said:
My view is that these factors should be measured irrespective price, value, design, desireability, or scarcity. The only way on to this list is closeness to perfection in FnF.

...

Do you agree that FnF is THE common factor in any "Best" listing?
Click to expand...

No. For me, pleasing and innovative designs are key, FnF must simply get to a certain level (admitedly high).
 
Hi Ryan,

Dean, Fisk, Feugen, Hancock and Newton. Their work encompasses a lot of different factors.

WWG
 
WoodWorkGhost said:
Hi Ryan,

Dean, Fisk, Feugen, Hancock and Newton. Their work encompasses a lot of different factors.

WWG
Click to expand...
Even though Mr. Feugen's work can be a bit over the top for my taste, you ain't gonna get any arguments out of me on him or any of the others guys you mentioned :thumbup: There are probably one or two guys who will be joining this esteemed group in the near future.
 
To me the look and feel of the knife are the most important factors, with fit & finish coming next.

It would be impossible for me to produce a list of the best knifemakers, because I don't have experience with the work of many of the top makers. i could only comment on those that I know.
 
Stephen F said:
Do you agree that FnF is THE common factor in any "Best" listing?
Click to expand...

Well, it is a common factor (all of "the best" will excel in this area) but it is not the defining factor. Elements of design and style factor in much more strongly. You can have a knife that exhibits perfection in fit and finish, yet is as boring and uninspiring as builder's beige.

Roger
 
RogerP said:
Well, it is a common factor (all of "the best" will excel in this area) but it is not the defining factor. Elements of design and style factor in much more strongly. You can have a knife that exhibits perfection in fit and finish, yet is as boring and uninspiring as builder's beige.

Roger
Click to expand...
I am glade to hear you say that, Roger because in my case, the perfect fit and finish thing is a LONG way off but I seem to be getting the hang of the design thing..........sort of:D A lot of times I can tell that a gorgeous custom knife was made by a human being, but there are those guys who's stuff looks like it was made on machines designed to grind telscope mirrors:eek:
 
Can't believe there has been NO mention of a makers business ethics, degree of customer service or regard for the advancement of the industry in this discussion of what constitutes a Best Maker. :confused:
IMO, a Best Maker is about more than just the knives they produce.

My list of best forged makers based on my personnel experience are:

Fisk
Hancock
Dean
Hanson
Winkler
 
Well I don't know how Wolfgang Loerchner is not at the head of any list. Can't imagine anyone doing better fit and finish and innovation of design and all done totally by hand. After him, start listing the others and certainly WWG's picks are great. I'm glad he gives credit to Doug Casteel who I feel does the best grinds although Walter Brend is very close.
 
The responses are enlightening (well to me anyway as I often sit in the dark:D). I am not proposing that FnF is "the defining" criteria for best, I know it is a combination of a few things, but rather the only consistent and objectively measurable criteria.

All of the other factors listed here are 'subjective', and dictated by personal taste. Whilst we can all agree that design and aesthetics are a criteria, we will all have different tastes, different, unmeasurable, ideas about what is the "best" design, or "best" style.

For me FnF is the only hard fact in this equation, if for some it is not as important as the design and feel (which is understandable), then the definition of "best" makers is, by implication, highly subjective, with majority consensus being the only way of drawing up a "most commonly thought of as best makers" list, which is different from a "best makers" list.

Interesting. Thanks for the input!

Stephen
 
Roger and Ryan,

Thank you.

Murray, I picked Doug over Wolf as I feel Doug can do more things than with a knife than Wolf. Not necessiarly better...just more.

Kevin, I didn't include Dan on this list as I view Dan and Virgil England as having their own categories....which they own.

WWG
 
Fit and Finish are a BIG part or it (if you don't have FNF you will never be at the top), but there are several other elements in my opinion that also factor in as much or more.

Several have been mentioned they include design/style, inovation, feel/balance, ability to work with difficult materials, an eye for what materials compliment each other, and being able to sell ones self/knives.

I personally think Arpad Bojtos needs to be ranked in the top echelons!

I would like to recommend Craig Camerer! If you haven't seen some of the work he has been putting out lately you should really take a look!! Stunning work!

Tom
 
WoodWorkGhost said:
Roger and Ryan,

Thank you.

Murray, I picked Doug over Wolf as I feel Doug can do more things than with a knife than Wolf. Not necessiarly better...just more.

Kevin, I didn't include Dan on this list as I view Dan and Virgil England as having their own categories....which they own.
WWG
Click to expand...

Makes perfectively good sense. :thumbup:
 
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