I was just wondering why so many knives have this large gap between the handle or guard and the cutting edge. It just seems more sensible to me to have the cutting edge extend all the way to the handle/guard (especially for fighting knives). Is there any good reason for this gap?
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The Big Gap
- Thread starter Beethoven
- Start date
If what you're saying is what I think it is(there's a term for that, I don't remember what), I usually consider the gap to be helpful when you're sharpening. I bought a used custom knife with a beautiful handle + bolster with the cutting edge all the way to the bolster. Came sharpening time, I found it hard not to scratch the bolster when I sharpened the mentioned area.
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Reynaert
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Reynaert
Gary W. Graley
“Imagination is more important than knowledge"
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
- Joined
- Mar 2, 1999
- Messages
- 27,641
Beethoven, welcome to the forums, you bring up a point that is one of my pet peeves....Frantium has a valid point as well, I dislike knives that have the halfmoon notch before the edge starts as that tends to catch when you go to cut stuff, irritating to say the least and can be dangerous when it snags.
Chris Reeve knives and William Henry and White Wing folders I have lack that nasty little notch but the area or the Big Gap they do have but it's at an angle and material doesn't catch there.
Recently I was fortunate enough to obtain from Alan Folts, a well reknown and up coming maker, his First folder efforts. He used Thunderforge Damascus for the blade, an aged looking ivory micarta for scales, titanium for bolsters and liners and the micarta for the back spacer.
The knife is a large folder with a very Neat blade shape, one I'm partial too. But several things that I like about this knife speaks to your question.
When open, the blade and bolster connection has no gap, the blade snuggles right up under the bolster, nothing to snag at all. And yet Alan kept the important part of the blade, the edge, very close to the bolster, but not so close, as Frantium mentioned, that you would scratch the bolster during sharpening. The handle is very comfortable and the sweep of the bolster makes a fairly safe guard so to speak, remind you now that this isn't a fighter but a hard worker.
The next nice part is when it's closed, closed, the blade seats it's self deep into the handle and the tang of the blade isn't sticking up to offer the sharp end of the tang for wear and tear in your pocket, all parts are smooth and will not wear out the pocket or snag on anything.
Again I say, First Folder? Wow I like this knife a lot, only thing against it is the size and Alan said, heck we can always make a smaller one for you, kind man eh
? I know some of you would say that it's not BIG enough, we all know who you are
Here is a link to the knife, pretty large image. I scanned it on my scanner.
http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Cabin/7306/folts.jpg
Blade length is 3 3/8" from bolster to tip,
Blade width is about 1 1/8"
Blade thickness is 1/8"
Overall length is 8 1/2"
Thanks again Alan,
G2
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"The Road to Hell is Paved with Good Intentions!"
Take the time to read your Bible Now, don't be left behind...
G2 LeatherWorks
[This message has been edited by Gary W. Graley (edited 07-26-2000).]
Chris Reeve knives and William Henry and White Wing folders I have lack that nasty little notch but the area or the Big Gap they do have but it's at an angle and material doesn't catch there.
Recently I was fortunate enough to obtain from Alan Folts, a well reknown and up coming maker, his First folder efforts. He used Thunderforge Damascus for the blade, an aged looking ivory micarta for scales, titanium for bolsters and liners and the micarta for the back spacer.
The knife is a large folder with a very Neat blade shape, one I'm partial too. But several things that I like about this knife speaks to your question.
When open, the blade and bolster connection has no gap, the blade snuggles right up under the bolster, nothing to snag at all. And yet Alan kept the important part of the blade, the edge, very close to the bolster, but not so close, as Frantium mentioned, that you would scratch the bolster during sharpening. The handle is very comfortable and the sweep of the bolster makes a fairly safe guard so to speak, remind you now that this isn't a fighter but a hard worker.
The next nice part is when it's closed, closed, the blade seats it's self deep into the handle and the tang of the blade isn't sticking up to offer the sharp end of the tang for wear and tear in your pocket, all parts are smooth and will not wear out the pocket or snag on anything.
Again I say, First Folder? Wow I like this knife a lot, only thing against it is the size and Alan said, heck we can always make a smaller one for you, kind man eh
Here is a link to the knife, pretty large image. I scanned it on my scanner.
http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Cabin/7306/folts.jpg
Blade length is 3 3/8" from bolster to tip,
Blade width is about 1 1/8"
Blade thickness is 1/8"
Overall length is 8 1/2"
Thanks again Alan,
G2
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"The Road to Hell is Paved with Good Intentions!"
Take the time to read your Bible Now, don't be left behind...
G2 LeatherWorks
[This message has been edited by Gary W. Graley (edited 07-26-2000).]
- Joined
- Apr 27, 1999
- Messages
- 6,117
I believe the cutout that you find disagreable is called a choil. I don't see much functional advantage to one except on a kitchen knife that will be used to dice food on a cutting board. For a chef's knife you really need to sharpen smoothly all the way to the heal corner of the blade. On a hunting, utility, or fighting knife the only functional advantage is balance.
There is a real safety issue in sharpening where you want all the edge uniformly sharp. If you begin cutting on a dull spot you tend to apply heavy pressure and then zoom through the material unexpectedly fast when you get to the sharp area of your blade. If you have obstructions (like a bolster or guard) that interferes with sharpening you can develop a dull spot. Often times this spot will likewise be obstructed from cutting use so the point is moot. If this area is just a little further out from your guard it may be exactly the spot where you start cutting things.
A choil isn't generally the answer since you will often catch things in the cuttout. Sometimes makers gradually transition from unsharpened to sharpened regions which requires special sharpening to match. For this configuration I like a rounded ceramic rod to follow the curvature. I generally prefer a small ricasso (completely unsharpened region with a distinct margin) which gets me away from the guard and lets me use a flat hone right up to the edge/no-edge margin.
When you make a knife it is convenient to have a ricasso or choil so that the portion of blade that goes through your guard fits a simple shaped hole. A knife-edge fitting hole is a bit of a hastle. The scandinavian knives are sharp right up to the handle, bit are weak where the blade goes inside because they neck down to a narrow stick tang at that point.
There is a real safety issue in sharpening where you want all the edge uniformly sharp. If you begin cutting on a dull spot you tend to apply heavy pressure and then zoom through the material unexpectedly fast when you get to the sharp area of your blade. If you have obstructions (like a bolster or guard) that interferes with sharpening you can develop a dull spot. Often times this spot will likewise be obstructed from cutting use so the point is moot. If this area is just a little further out from your guard it may be exactly the spot where you start cutting things.
A choil isn't generally the answer since you will often catch things in the cuttout. Sometimes makers gradually transition from unsharpened to sharpened regions which requires special sharpening to match. For this configuration I like a rounded ceramic rod to follow the curvature. I generally prefer a small ricasso (completely unsharpened region with a distinct margin) which gets me away from the guard and lets me use a flat hone right up to the edge/no-edge margin.
When you make a knife it is convenient to have a ricasso or choil so that the portion of blade that goes through your guard fits a simple shaped hole. A knife-edge fitting hole is a bit of a hastle. The scandinavian knives are sharp right up to the handle, bit are weak where the blade goes inside because they neck down to a narrow stick tang at that point.
- Joined
- Oct 3, 1998
- Messages
- 883
If the choil is large enough, you can wrap your index finger around it to "choke up" on the blade for greater control, or to reinforce the blade/handle juncture when cutting hard materials.
David Rock
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AKTI Member # A000846
Stop when you get to bone.
David Rock
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AKTI Member # A000846
Stop when you get to bone.
If we are talking Ricasso here, then I think Ed Fowler might have a different point of view. I believe Ed is a big believer in a generous Ricasso and full guard for choking up on a knife to do detailed work. Check out his book Knife Talk. I believe he's not too fond of choils.
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Hoodoo
And so, to all outdoor folks, the knife is the most important item of equipment.
Ellsworth Jaeger - Wildwood Wisdom
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Hoodoo
And so, to all outdoor folks, the knife is the most important item of equipment.
Ellsworth Jaeger - Wildwood Wisdom