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- May 18, 1999
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- 15,395
Well where do I start trying to describe the Cherokee Rose made by Sanu? It's rather difficult, but perhaps first impressions would be the best right now.
To get the record straight I ordered two of these as I have a special purpose for one of them later on.
Anyway my first impression was just lifting the rather larger box from H.I. than is common and almost throwing it over my shoulder because it was so light!!!!
I won't get into the unwrapping and other non....., well y'all
know.;-)
First and foremost the Cherokee Rose is meant to be a fighting knife, a weapon hopefully only used in self defense if needed and a multi purpose knife secondly.
With Pala's direction from Uncle Bill he was able to get Sanu to make the knife most of us wanted or at least what I was wanting!!!! YMMV.
Sanu nailed it just pretty dayumed good!!!!!!!
Both of these blades are perfectly convexed!!!! I could not ask for a more perfect job!!!! Many thanks Bro!!!! This is the way a good Bowie oughta be made IMO!!!!
Even the small repairs made at the juncture of wood and guard on one isn't offensive, at least to me it isn't, actually it's not really all that noticeable.
It is very apparent that both these knives are excellent examples of hand made art from the forge and both remind me of a couple of old Southwestern Style Bowies I've seen in the past right down to their rather thin points!!!!!
One of the knives Sanu made is a little too thin on the point and the reason Bro told me I would need to be careful with it and, as it is, care really does need to be taken with it as it's only 0.020" right at the point and would easily be broken off if the knife was mishandled, But then the point on this one would cut like the sharpest scalpel you ever saw if left alone, probably still will at 0.055" !!!!!!!
I would hate to think what a back cut would be like with this Bowie, either of them for that matter!!!!
However I will probably take about 1/2 inch or so off the point of this one making it come closer to the other one in thickness which is 0.055" a quarter inch back from the point, making it much less apt to break off so one doesn't have to be quite as careful with it.
Sometimes a stab is needed if you happened to be attacked by a rather large cat of the kind that roams down in my Bro Finn's bailiwick.
These Bowies definitely have a point that will penetrate and penetrate deeply!!!!
Chopping could be done from about 2" in front of the clip and on back towards the guard on either knife, if one wanted to use the Rose for that.
When it warms up back into the 60's again I will try to have a go at testing them for chopping.
I believe they will do fine, not like a khukuri of course, but dayumed adequate!!!!
The Cherokee Rose should also be a pretty fair slicer with the really nice convexed profile.
One starts out about 0.295" from the spine at the guard to 0.240" at the beginning of the clip and then slightly more distally tapered from there to the point.
The other starts at 0.290 from the spine at the guard to the same 0.240 at the clip and etc!!!!!!!
Who was saying that a CNC machine was needed at BirGhorka? Hee!!!!
And I would almost bet that Sanu didn't use any measurement devices when making these, but notice I said, "almost bet."
The only difference as I noted before is that Sanu got one a little thinner than the other at the point, not bad for a second and third prototype IMO!!!!!!
Oh yeah, I didn't mention that both Cherokee Roses come right in at 29 ounces, unbelievable almost!!!!! We know the BirGhorka kami's are good!!!!
Now to the wood. It's exactly as Bro said of course and to me it has the appearance of a really nice old dark Black Walnut with a beautiful red highlight grain strip on one and with a really nice light brownish streaked grain in one place on the other.
The one with the red highlighted streak also has what appears to be flecks of red running through it in different places.
Kinda reminds me of a Black Walnut mixed with just a little Cocobolo and a stripe or two of South American Bloodwood.
It's enough to give a woodchuck heart palpitations.
I can maybe give a better description when the lighting gets better. It's been raining here off and on since last night and been cloudy all day.
I have no idea of what it is except for beautiful. It appears to be quite oily, but I will only know that for sure either way when I get to some fine sanding on the handles.
We'll get back to that a little later when I do a sample sanding. I will also let you guys know if it's Chandan or not, but the best I can recall the Chandan I handled wasn't quite as dense as this wood and not nearly as dark either.
Sanu nailed the handles excellently!!!! Both are just a tad thicker and perfectly formed IMO, leavening just enough to finish sand the few rough sanding marks left.
Both are so very comfortable gripped at the front or the rear of the handle.
Sanu didn't finish these as well as a khukuri handle, but then they aren't loaded in rouge either which is a real plus to me and I'm pretty sure it would be to some others as well.
The scabbards are both very nicely done and as I have said before, "The frogs can be unlaced and turned to the reverse side to make them left hand carry."
The sarkis may make some similar scabbards after these, but I think it will be pure luck if anyone gets the nice dark brown leather that's on these.
All in all I am very satisfied with these two, both excellent prototypes!!!! I would recommend that whichever kami may make any duplicates of these Sanu made Cherokee Roses that the point be made just a little bit thicker, about a 1/16" or so at the very least, about 0.080" would be even better IMO.
So if anyone wants a real Bowie Knife shoot for one of these. I believe you will be well pleased.
If you want a Bowie you can really beat around get one like Bura made if Bro decides to do two models, but that's up to him and Pala.
I just wanted to add that it now becomes apparent to me as to why Bura made the first prototype the way he did.
Bura is used to making khukuris that are thicker than most ordinary knives and that are used hard as not only a knife, but also as a prybar at times.
Now I wouldn't try to lift a truck with Bura's knife, but it will withstand some pretty heavy side forces.
Bura did extremely well with these thoughts in mind. Bura's rendition makes for many compromises, not all of them bad as it is still very quick in the hand, but to me lacks the certain finesse that I was hoping for that Sanu nailed perfectly.
Had Bura completely understood what the Cherokee Rose was meant to be I have no doubt that he could have done the extremely excellent job he always does perhaps even out doing Sanu if that's even possible.
To get the record straight I ordered two of these as I have a special purpose for one of them later on.
Anyway my first impression was just lifting the rather larger box from H.I. than is common and almost throwing it over my shoulder because it was so light!!!!
I won't get into the unwrapping and other non....., well y'all
know.;-)
First and foremost the Cherokee Rose is meant to be a fighting knife, a weapon hopefully only used in self defense if needed and a multi purpose knife secondly.
With Pala's direction from Uncle Bill he was able to get Sanu to make the knife most of us wanted or at least what I was wanting!!!! YMMV.
Sanu nailed it just pretty dayumed good!!!!!!!
Both of these blades are perfectly convexed!!!! I could not ask for a more perfect job!!!! Many thanks Bro!!!!
This is the way a good Bowie oughta be made IMO!!!!Even the small repairs made at the juncture of wood and guard on one isn't offensive, at least to me it isn't, actually it's not really all that noticeable.
It is very apparent that both these knives are excellent examples of hand made art from the forge and both remind me of a couple of old Southwestern Style Bowies I've seen in the past right down to their rather thin points!!!!!
One of the knives Sanu made is a little too thin on the point and the reason Bro told me I would need to be careful with it and, as it is, care really does need to be taken with it as it's only 0.020" right at the point and would easily be broken off if the knife was mishandled, But then the point on this one would cut like the sharpest scalpel you ever saw if left alone, probably still will at 0.055" !!!!!!!
I would hate to think what a back cut would be like with this Bowie, either of them for that matter!!!!
However I will probably take about 1/2 inch or so off the point of this one making it come closer to the other one in thickness which is 0.055" a quarter inch back from the point, making it much less apt to break off so one doesn't have to be quite as careful with it.
Sometimes a stab is needed if you happened to be attacked by a rather large cat of the kind that roams down in my Bro Finn's bailiwick.
These Bowies definitely have a point that will penetrate and penetrate deeply!!!!
Chopping could be done from about 2" in front of the clip and on back towards the guard on either knife, if one wanted to use the Rose for that.
When it warms up back into the 60's again I will try to have a go at testing them for chopping.
I believe they will do fine, not like a khukuri of course, but dayumed adequate!!!!
The Cherokee Rose should also be a pretty fair slicer with the really nice convexed profile.
One starts out about 0.295" from the spine at the guard to 0.240" at the beginning of the clip and then slightly more distally tapered from there to the point.
The other starts at 0.290 from the spine at the guard to the same 0.240 at the clip and etc!!!!!!!
Who was saying that a CNC machine was needed at BirGhorka? Hee!!!!
And I would almost bet that Sanu didn't use any measurement devices when making these, but notice I said, "almost bet."
The only difference as I noted before is that Sanu got one a little thinner than the other at the point, not bad for a second and third prototype IMO!!!!!!
Oh yeah, I didn't mention that both Cherokee Roses come right in at 29 ounces, unbelievable almost!!!!! We know the BirGhorka kami's are good!!!!
Now to the wood. It's exactly as Bro said of course and to me it has the appearance of a really nice old dark Black Walnut with a beautiful red highlight grain strip on one and with a really nice light brownish streaked grain in one place on the other.
The one with the red highlighted streak also has what appears to be flecks of red running through it in different places.
Kinda reminds me of a Black Walnut mixed with just a little Cocobolo and a stripe or two of South American Bloodwood.
It's enough to give a woodchuck heart palpitations.
I can maybe give a better description when the lighting gets better. It's been raining here off and on since last night and been cloudy all day.
I have no idea of what it is except for beautiful. It appears to be quite oily, but I will only know that for sure either way when I get to some fine sanding on the handles.
We'll get back to that a little later when I do a sample sanding. I will also let you guys know if it's Chandan or not, but the best I can recall the Chandan I handled wasn't quite as dense as this wood and not nearly as dark either.
Sanu nailed the handles excellently!!!! Both are just a tad thicker and perfectly formed IMO, leavening just enough to finish sand the few rough sanding marks left.
Both are so very comfortable gripped at the front or the rear of the handle.
Sanu didn't finish these as well as a khukuri handle, but then they aren't loaded in rouge either which is a real plus to me and I'm pretty sure it would be to some others as well.
The scabbards are both very nicely done and as I have said before, "The frogs can be unlaced and turned to the reverse side to make them left hand carry."
The sarkis may make some similar scabbards after these, but I think it will be pure luck if anyone gets the nice dark brown leather that's on these.
All in all I am very satisfied with these two, both excellent prototypes!!!! I would recommend that whichever kami may make any duplicates of these Sanu made Cherokee Roses that the point be made just a little bit thicker, about a 1/16" or so at the very least, about 0.080" would be even better IMO.
So if anyone wants a real Bowie Knife shoot for one of these. I believe you will be well pleased.
If you want a Bowie you can really beat around get one like Bura made if Bro decides to do two models, but that's up to him and Pala.
I just wanted to add that it now becomes apparent to me as to why Bura made the first prototype the way he did.
Bura is used to making khukuris that are thicker than most ordinary knives and that are used hard as not only a knife, but also as a prybar at times.
Now I wouldn't try to lift a truck with Bura's knife, but it will withstand some pretty heavy side forces.
Bura did extremely well with these thoughts in mind. Bura's rendition makes for many compromises, not all of them bad as it is still very quick in the hand, but to me lacks the certain finesse that I was hoping for that Sanu nailed perfectly.
Had Bura completely understood what the Cherokee Rose was meant to be I have no doubt that he could have done the extremely excellent job he always does perhaps even out doing Sanu if that's even possible.
