The "core"

Tamishigiri

Tamishigiri

Joined
Aug 22, 1999
Messages
667
Sorry guys, I'm in need of something deeper lately than
chat about this and that.

I'd like to open a topic that is so crucial yet NEVER discussed enough.

It IS the single most important componet of what we all train for and talk about.



It is ............. MINDSET


I'd like to hear what you do to hit your mark, find your CHI, KI,
Summon your DEATH ENERGY (SHIKI) etc. et al.

Thanks;)
 
What I personally beleive in is lack of emotion. Try to become disconnected in a sense & only use those emotions which would best benefit you at the time. In some cases it works, while in others it doesn't. It's a crapshoot... I have tried cultivating this type of behavior for nearly 2 decades. Call me insane, but it helped more than hindered. :D


My mindset is about SURVIVAL. Survival for me & mine. That is to say, no matter what happens I will do ANYTHING I can possibly do to make sure we can keep on drawing breath. That is the foundation that everything else is based upon. It could include being an incredibly ruthless, cold & calculating person in the most literal sense of definition. Training augments your chances for survival, but I firmly beleive real world experience & the way your psyche is put together determines your likelyhood to keep breathing. I have met alot of technical people & they have great merit. What is most rare in this world is technical people with REAL WORLD experience. From them, you can gain keen insights to things you never knew existed. I do my best to go home every night. I have had experiences where I have felt ugly & primal but I am still ALIVE. That is PARAMOUNT.
 
I like to think about it as letting out the "lizard brain". I stop looking at the person as human, and just as a piece of meat in my way, a target. There's definitely emotion there; raw hate. It's hard to keep a check on in training, but I'm getting better at turning it on and shutting it off. No big deal there. Should be a pre-requisite for my line of work (army). Some of it came out on Joe Estrada during Crafty's set at the Prado seminar. Ended up biting the shxt out of his wrist and arm when he tried a throat cut. But it's cool, we were great pals by the end of the class.

2 cents from the intel geek, anyway...;)

SGT Fitts
 
I try to imagine that whoever or whatever is trying to hurt my daughter, (who just turned 3 today wooohooo!), and that works for me. Or imagine someone is trying to hurt me and it becomes a win at all costs. Anything goes. I studied Aikido for 2 years while I was in college and my teacher was awesome, ( Sensei Blok ) he is ranked quite high, and I enjoyed it alot but I got working and I don't have time anymore but one day I would like to continue with it, it is a very calming martial art, to me anyway, And it also takes alot of movements from the samurai, which goes along with my other hobby, KNIVES.
 
Interesting question, I wish I had a good answer.

I don't know what I do or how I do it, all I know is that when the moment comes, it's a very fast and tightly focused thing. Pain becomes trivia and there is a clarity that I experience at no other time. This happens whether it's sparring, duelling, or the real McCoy.

I have no idea when or how the "transition" begins though.
I find that a little disturbing to be perfectly honest.

Bigtree31,
Happy Birthday to your little girl!
 
My real world experience on this issue is long ago, and mainly involved getting my ass kicked (no weapons involved). I think part of the reason why was a failure to get mad fast enough. The question is how quickly can you recover from the sense of disbelief that you may have, that someone is actually trying to hurt you, in this "civilized" world.
Jeff Cooper has written extensively about this, and his point seems to be that if you stay in condition "yellow" appropriately (which means you are always aware of your surroundings) you can go to "red" faster, and then technique helps you to stay alive.
Stephen Hunter's books about "Bob the Nailer" treat this subject in a fictional sense, as did Eastwood in "Josey Wales" - the idea is to get mad. Thinking of your daughter, yourself, your limbic brain - anything that works for you.
I'll bet practice helps, but it can be wearing to tap into the adrenals, which is essentially what we are talking about, physiologicaly - "fight or flight".
Congrats on your daughter's birthday - all ages are good, but three was particularly cute with mine.
 
Being confronted with one's own mortality in a violent situation and committing fully to action is an experience that most never face. This is part of that CORE of the warrior mindset. To prepare for this both physically and mentally, regardles of motives, objectives or mission is paramount.
 
I too use anger - which, I feel, is a bad thing (for me, at any rate). When I get really angry (and I don't, usually - I try to avoid arguments, fights, whatever, because I scare myself when I'm "gone") I tend to try to use brute force to overcome what has prompted me to become this way. The person involved has ceased to become something I recognize as "a person". It's a target, one which I need to destroy. Now, this is a bad thing, because what small bit of training I've had to this point in my life goes out the window. Like I said above - I use brute force. So, if this target of mine is able to get away from me, it has the advantage. I need to find a way to channel that anger, and learn how to keep my head in a life threatening situation, so I can be Tactical/Strategical (which I envision as a zig-zag line), rather than being a brute (which I see as a straight line).
 
Tamishigiri,
Great idea for a thread, what I find even more refreshing is that someone of such high skill level and accomplishment is still seeking to learn and is still hungry to grow. In my experiences, hunger for knowledge and growth, as well as the ego that is in check, are some of the hallmarks of the great ones.
Ok, before I reply to the question, let me clarify that I am not now, nor have I ever been, a martial artist of any significance. I came to the realization many years ago that I could either try to excel in one sport or just be adequate in a few, just adequate never being one of my goals. Having said all that, I do believe that the mental training and mindset for competitive powerlifting is very similar to what you are talking about. If you don't agree, I apologize in advance.
I have observed that in the sport of powerlifting, as well as martial arts, that there are some that excel in training in the gym, but when it comes to lifting on a stage in front of an audience with the chips down(or in the case of MA a real life danger scenario)that many of these individuals either freeze up, or just let their emotions so overtake them that they are basically useless. For example, I know alot of lifters who consistently lift 5-10% less in competition than they do in training. On the other hand, I am one of the fortunate few, and I know that I always lift much more in competition than I do in training due to proper focus and channeling of adrenaline. There was a time many years ago in my first few meets when I got on stage to lift that I was so distracted by the audience that my knees would actually shake. Through the use of different mental exercises and training,I reached a point where I don't even notice that there is anyone there except me and the weight. It's like my eyes are looking straight ahead but I don't see. Through a technique called visualization, I actually see myself accomplishing the task before I ever actually attempt it. The ability to focus and visualize and believe, without letting one's heart rate accelerate too much, is a skill that I believe is beneficial in MA and lifting. If the heartrate gets too fast, or your adrenaline gets too high, while doing mental excercises, you will be exhausted and worn out before ever attempting what it is you need to do. To be calm in the midst of the action on the outside, but to be on fire on the inside, is I believe the goal, sometimes we call it the zone.
Singlemindedness of purpose, controlled rage,focused adrenaline,properly being physically prepared,and the willingness to risk all, appear to be the same to me in both of our chosen endeavors.
Hopefully, this is not considered off topic.
Dave
 
Dave,
I don't think it's off topic at all.
What you describe is very close to what I was talking about.

I don't normally get angry really, it's like I'm in a place outside of emotion. I don't feel much of anything. No anger, no excitement, but there is that definite "tachycardia" sensation. Like everyone else is either standing still or not quite moving at full speed.
I don't know. I could ramble on for days trying to remember/describe it.

Has anyone else had one of those moments when your mind drifts away somewhere and you're "gone" for just a minute or two?
Someone says something and snaps you back, maybe asks "where did YOU go?" and you can't remember?

That's a little what it feels like when trying to describe where my head is during a fight.

It's odd though.
Duelling partners often ask me if I was mad, or what I was thinking about, they say I get a "very scary" look on my face. To me, it feels emotionless. To others, I guess it looks like rage.

I don't know if this is good or bad.
 
Train, Train, and then Train some more until all of your moves are second nature or automatic, because when the time comes more often than not there is no time to think or plan your next move or action.
When fight or flight kicks in the blood supply to the brain is reduced to supply the muscles for immideate action wether it be fight or flight so the brain is reduced to the most basic needs and therefore instinct takes over and thus the more you train the more the training becomes instinct.

Think about it, if you did IAD's on a regular basis in the military how well did they stick with you, I'll bet if you were put in a similar situation today even if you haven't practiced them in a couple of years that you would perform them without a thought and then not remember what you did.

When you are training your body your mind is taking notes.

Kevin
 
I agree the that mental training is paramount survival activity; however, I've often wondered just how much personality serves as a foundation for the 'warrior' mind. My own introspection tells me that it's part of my nature to mentally focus under duress. Physical talent serves as a foundation to build combative skills. The higher the degree of physical talent, the better the assimilation of skills. So my question is; "How critical are personality traits, in building and refining mental warrior skills?".

My life experience as shown me that certain folk, are by thier nature dwell within a certain mindset, and thus, find vocations that compliment their way of thinking. They also test and expand their mental and physical limits. Over time and experience, they learn how to 'switch' into fightin' gear. I think every well-practiced man will find his own 'switch' and refine his focus once in that gear.

My 'switch' is somewhat anger-based, with a focus that my faliure will cause harm to loved ones, whose lives and well-being I hold greater than my own. I also use this thought as a fear control.

I also know when I'm swaying between a 'fear control' mindset and a 'task accomplishment' mindset. Of course, 'fear' always steeps higher, when I'm unclear as to my next immediate task or move.

That's where training comes in: I take what Ken's experiences are relating, and I see a directness of action, little mind-idle time, to cause conscious interrupts.

Lastly, I think controlling one's mind during combat is far more diffucult than controlling the body's physical movement's. It's them micro-seconds synaptic crossfires.

-Seth
 
Tamishigiri,

Good to hear from you again. Hope you're OK, and a great topic to look at. Just not sure if any of us can put it into words, but here is my attempt.

My first experience with any formal training would have been at the hands of Jeff Cooper at Gunsite many years ago now where I first heard of the term 'Mindset'. Since then, I have studied it deeply, especially since becoming a Police Officer. And drawn from many people who have far more experience than me ie. Cooper, CJ Carracci, Emerson etc. etc.

I think that when it comes down to it, it is the willingness to do whatever is necessary to win / survive whatever situation you are in. Any plan or weapon you may have had is secondary to the willingness to carry it through. In short, you need a 'reason' to win. I think Mike Ajax put it best when he began his lesson at the Seminar by talking about Mindset and saying something along the lines of 'If you have nothing more important than your own life, and nothing is more important to you than yourself, pack your sh*t up and get the fu*k out of here right now because you're not the sort of person I want to speak to'. (How cool was that !). :D

Anyway, I think that this sums it up far better than I can describe it. There has to be a reason for you to win the fight first of all, then you need to find that mental trigger that unleashes hell on your target. We all have our own levels we are prepared to go to before we retalliate, and so we have differing mental triggers. What works for me is what has already been discussed here. A mental image of my target hurting a member of my immediate family will usually result in their needing a long hospital stay. But in some situations, the trigger needs to be instantaneous and you don't have the luxury of psyching yourself up. In this situation, I can only put the instant jump from average guy on the street to unleashing hell as being a result of your training. Train hard, fight easy ! Or something along those lines.

Feel free to pick me to death on this guys if you see anything wrong with it. As I said, it's something I've looked at long and hard, and I'd appreciate any comments.
 
You should all try this:
One night, go to a local park alone; stand in the middle of the grass alone and scream at the top of your lungs as long as you have breath "GRAHHH!!" It is really a cool experience. Really releases alot of energy.:cool:
 
The mindset can happen anywhere, on the street, in the home, or the dojo, training hall etc.

It is something that comes out when you are stressed and/or threatened. And one of three things is going to occur: 1) Flight 2) Fight or 3) Freeze.

Freezing is the one thing that you want to train out of you with haste. Flight and fight each have it's value. In this day and age, if you can run away, you probably should. There are too many variables (read additional antagonists in the dark) today. So if you can run, your family and friends can run, then run.

The instinct to fight with ferocity is what we strive for in training. These can only be acheived through reactionary and dynamic drills. Reactionary drills promote doing something when you are otherwise in shock. Dynamic drills take you into the realm of proactive response.

Having said that, until you are in a real situation you'll never really know if you've got it or not.

I'm not sure if I've got it. I've only experienced it three times, and they were all in the dojo. Did I feel threatened, once yes. The other times were in full contact sparring situations where I did not want to lose, and the other guy had a chip on his shoulder. But these are still only experiences in training. So...

Zzzen_Dog
 
Mindset is making the decision. You can visualize and plan scenarios and decide in advance what your response will be or you can decide at the onset of the critical incident what you will do. The decision is I will survive, I will overcome, I will not lose.

Mindset set is channeling your hate, fear, anger, shock, or whatever emotion you experience during the critical incident into your chosen response whether it is fight or flight. Bruce Lee in "Enter the Dragon" said "Use emotional content, not anger".

Mindset is the mental process that will drive your response to the critical incident.

Cheers,
Damon
 
Wow, what a topic! For the record, I have only a few years of MA experience and have never been in a "Do or Die" situation. With that said...............here goes.

To survive a battle, you first must have accepted the fact that you could be killed. Overcoming this fear does a lot to calm your mind so that you can focus on the task at hand..........ending the threat. IMHO, accepting death is a huge leap toward victory. The other guy wants to go home.............if you don't care whether you do or not, you have 1 less thing to worry about. You get to focus on the BG. I know this is a VERY general description of a VERY complex subject, so maybe some of you guys with some real world experience can elaborate on this particular point. Some of you talked about going totally emotionless; so maybe this fits in there.


Just my $.02

Woody
 
There are some great responses here. I'll attempt to share what I know
and what I've learned. I beleive it to be a complete truth.

First, I'll elaborate on a couple of sources I have gleaned some very interesing data from. First is Dr. Paul Whitesell. If you have heard Dr. Whitesell you'll know what I mean. If not I'll give a phone # to call and order a FREE Video tape called "The Psychology Of Combat". He is a speaker that has really compressed and concise condensed what happens in Combat (Hoplology).
Here's a # 801.377.8033. The company is Action Target and they GIVE IT AWAY FREE. Check it out you will not be disapointed.
Dr. Whitsell refers to it as "REPTILLIAN BRAIN". I'll elaborate shortly.

The other source that really accurately ellucidates "MINDSET"
is in a book called KORYU BUJUTSU Classical Warrior traditions of Japan. Edited by Diane Skoss and printed in 1997. You can order it from KORYU Books at 1.888.665.6798 or www.koryubooks.com/kbl.html

Ther is a chapter by David Hall w/in the book that REALLY gives it to you in deatil. I'll elaborate w/o being too prolix here.


The 3 psycho-physical states reached by a humans in combat are, 1) steadfast/imperturbable mind, 2) cognitive/intuition and 3) volition.

When ANY of your five senses register threat (sight, hearing, touch, smell, taste) that threat is cognitivly perceived and/or intuitively
apprehended by the brain through processing by both left and right hemispheres. Hans Selye calls it GAS or (General Adaptation Syndrome).
W/in this GAS there is a An Alarm reaction, a resistance stage, and extinction stage. Ther is a sub system w/in the Alarm reaction stage called Shock Phase and Counter Shock Phase. In this Counter Shock Phase the body's sympathetic nervous system is aroused by the release of pituitary and adrenocortical hormones. Here's the NUGGET of info here: this reaction and psycho-phsicalogical response is what triggers what many of you have commonly identified as "Fight, Flight or Freeze". Boy,talk about a BUZZZZZZZ... :-{)

If the stress or excitement is prolonged the extinction stage may occur and the body's protctive mechanisms break down and the organism enters a state of collapse. The good news is it can be controlled or stopped.

The inability to block the reaction results in anxiety, fear, panic or, in some instances (my favorite) mindless rage.


In my mind the epitome of Warriorship as in many cultures is to be able to be calm, cool, collected and deadlly. In this state is where all the training and ability w/in yourself lies. You need to be able to block the Alarm reaction remaining active, on the run, conserve energy or let it out, apply internalized technique, problem solve, devise tactics, improvise w/ you environment etc.


The Japanese call this FUDOSHIN (immovable or imperturbable mind). I'm not concerned w/ what others use to get there or call it so long as they learn to find it w/ in themselves. I feel that this is where the foundation from which the other traits operate as a whole.

Now we come to the training. The cognitive/intuitive phase relies on
the training here. Through training and experiences we will respond through combative systems in which he has trained. I think K Robinson said when we are training the mind is taking notes. Right on !
Guys this is why one should train. If for no other reason than you grasp this concept. It's there and in the mind reflexively which manifests itself physically how we react.

Lastly is the final phase VOLITION. This is a big one as well.
Volition is will, iniative, committment etc. Some channel it through anger, hate, desire, etc. et al. It can also be defined as Core Values or beliefs, values, morals, instincts, drives etc. et al.

You may be in this stae and be completly still, static posture etc.
it does'nt mean BONSAI or charge. The important thing here is to be in this state mentally.

There are nmany other things I could write here but I think w/ everyone's input here we all can see the importance of training and why we do it.


I'll sum it up from an old quote one of my sensei's told me 31 years ago that still is embedded in my mind boldly.


A student asked his master....

"Why do you teach us to live in peace when our training focuses so much on violence ?

The master replies....

"Is it not better to be a warrior in a garden than a gardner in a
war"...

BTW, Lifter4him it is similar as you have remarked when powerlifting.
You are summoning your energy the same way w/ a different purpose.
I use to do that as well and just frankly can't do it all as well.
Especially w/ a family and the other stuff.



TRAIN ....


Thanks to all who posted, enjoyed the exchange.
 
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